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[SPOILERS] Discussion Thr
[SPOILERS] Discussion Thread for the story we're planning!
If you're not Hex or Flamarestii and don't want spoilers on our story, please don't read this thread!
Anyway, we can plan and discuss more here!
submitted by Jaybells@Hex&Flame, age Obscure, Lost in the Universe
(February 15, 2022 - 8:42 am)
(February 15, 2022 - 8:42 am)
I sort of assumed they would be from Earth, but is this desert place another planet or not??
(February 28, 2022 - 11:46 am)
I was planning on it being the same planet, but I wasn't sure if that was still the plan because of the wording of the most recent snippet;
"Lucy looked up at the strange setting sun and shivered. This climate was nothing like her home world's."
I was sorta unclear on whether it was meant literally or not, which is why I asked. :)
(February 28, 2022 - 12:20 pm)
*pretends like I've been paying attention the whole time*
To me, Flamarestii is definitely fire and life, Hex is kind of shadowy-nighttime-stars and Jaybells is wind-ice-maybe-water. I think having us as gods-but-not-gods would be cool, but maybe not too obvious? Like we could have long-forgotten deities or mysterious lost artifacts with powers like our god-but-not-god forms. Maybe half based on Egyptian mythology (so cool btw).
Also, maybe sand deity should be first-generation, or like even before first, because it seems like our world/story is mostly set in the desert (so far anyway), so we could base culture/world around sand and desert. Maybe an ancient race of sand-shamans who could mold sand into elabrate sculptures?
I've been thinking of names for our desert-biome...
- something like the dunes of ____ or the sands of ____ or the desert of ____. We could highlight a main species or an ancient evil to fill in the blank.
- or we could do something generic like the endless wastes or the forgotten desert or just the plains
- we could use some creative name that in reality means nothing but sounds cool and deserty, like Orrara or Marill or something (what sounds deserty? HELP plz)
Is there anything anyone wants me to work on? Like names or writing or something... I don't really know what to add right now.
(February 28, 2022 - 3:35 pm)
Yep-yep to the first section, that definitely sounds good.
Since we are mostly in the desert, maybe we could focus on their specific culture's deities (similar to how on Earth there many desert-baseit, desert-originating religions; Egyptian, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and so many others that have been lost to time or overlooked. (Also not sure if Indian-origated religions count, but if they did that would that include 5 of the major world religions)).
Point being, there are many religions, even if only from the same parts of the world, around the same time/throughout time, so we don't have to settle on one "true" religion. However, we could also include something like the Riordan Series' take, where the gods are real, but they morph to the beliefs of the humans of the time and period they inhabit (which is also somewhat reminiscent of a Chinese belief).
The whole "sand-bender" idea sounds like a great one! Sand can definitely be a huge part of life, but maybe we'd want to consider also how they survive in the desert. For instance, say water is key to their survival, although there is so little of it; then sand, and being able to manipulate sand, could be a representation of the mercy of the sand-diety, and a willingness to let certain groups "borrow" their power under their approval. Lastly, there could be the night and day dieties which could effect the temperature / ability to see/work.
Although, come to think about it, perhaps the sky could have a strong connection with water, and be an older-sibling-figure to Sand, which is why oasises 'fall from the sky' and form in the sand, with that same level of authority and mercy towards living beings. Sky could then be affected by a pair of lovers (night and day) which would constantly swing their cycle/mood. (Here I use "they"/"their" as a placeholder, since I don't want to assign gender yet, if at all, until we get more figured out).
I like the idea of coming up with a desert'y-sounding name! We could make a whole conlang(in other words, create a whole new language for the sake of the story), maybe similar to Arabic in sound to give it that authentic desert'y feel... Of course, we don't have to explore it in depth in the actual story, but it could add a layer of depth/world-building panache to the audience's experience. (It's sorta like how in Encanto there are occasion Spanish sections/words, since it takes place in Colombia, which makes it feel more real, in a way).
If you're interested in the language/naming part, we could work together on that part, Hex! You could also start fleshing out the religious history, or relationship between the pantheon, if you want!
(If we do start the language bit, the name could very well mean 'Dunes of ___,' which we could specify in parentheses/at the end!)
(March 1, 2022 - 1:06 am)
Hello,
I was wondering if I could help out with your story? I would be happy to help with the world building/language stuff.
Eclipse
(March 2, 2022 - 3:45 pm)
If Hex and Flamie are okay with it, I'd be happy to have you help out some!
~Jaybells
(March 2, 2022 - 5:06 pm)
Hi, and welcome! Yes, you can definitely help out, and we'd be glad to hear your ideas for the language and world-building!
The plans so far include exploring an ancient tomb sort of thing in a desert, and a monstrous evil guarding it. The start by Jaybells is posted at the very beginning of this thread. Other than that, I think we're still brainstorming, so feel free to join our discussion!
(March 2, 2022 - 7:08 pm)
Totally saw this right away! The more the merrier. Could help with the language part?
(March 2, 2022 - 7:47 pm)
I'm totally on-board with the sand-benders, dieties, and dunes of something or other! I would love to help with a new language!
Another important thing would be to consider the culture of our desert. What are the rituals, traditions, everyday practises that the charries might encounter or take part in? Are there certain foods, clothing items (long, loose robes and wide-brimmed hats to keep off the sand and sun?), or weapons unique to the area? Anyone seen Raya and the Last Dragon: the culture and history is so detailed, and she's in a desert for a little while too
So, what feels really desert-y?
(March 2, 2022 - 6:12 pm)
First off, I don't want to copy-with-a-few-changes any cultures, so please tell me if I'm doing something like that.
For weapons, we could have magical daggers (or anything, really) that can spray sand... a bow that shoots sand arrows... something like that. I feel like the desert is bow territory because everything's so open and easy to shoot (you know, if you can aim *cough* not like me *cough*)
I think long, loose robes and wide-brimmed hats would be good, maybe robes white and we could use colored hats to convey status/job? Like architects could be brown, mages/sand shamans (if they exist) could be a deep purple-blue, etc. That would be a good way to show status. We could also do sashes/belts.
For rituals and traditions, I have no idea. Maybe offerings to the gods? Sand god in particular. Or they could have a saying, kind of like good morning, but sand-god related? Like "may the sands be with you" but NOT STAR WARS. We could translate something like that into our language, and use that (you know, when we have a language...).
(March 2, 2022 - 11:42 pm)
Sounds good!
Maybe instead of of pure sand-based weapons, they could be made of glass? Think about it, glass is just melted sand. That could also become a conflict, like some think it's immoral to use glass, because it's so dangerous, and can cause more permanent damage to the target and surrounding environment. (Similar to controversy on Earth about war-crimes and what's taking it too far, and all that.)
I'm thinking widely-used sand weapons/technology would be a bit impractical in general, 'cause the whole 'sand-bending' should probably be kept by the elite, which is how they maintain power(or at least claim to) -- think 'Divine Right' to rule by Christian European Monarchs, or Chinese Emperors' 'Mandate of Heaven' justification -- the elite here supposedly have the protection and favour of the sand diety.
We could even have a tribe where basically all of the members 'sand-bend,' but they live in relative secrecy/are outcasts to society; whether that be a choice for spiritual clarity by distancing themselves from others, or imposed by the rest of society. (Sorta like Airbenders in Avatar: the Last Airbender.)
I like the hats-denoting-position and plans for clothes, that feels pretty natural.
Also, in my mind this world is set back in time compared to us today on Earth; this means most would probably have to spend most of their time working -- whether that be contributing to the construction of public works, forging glass/stone weaponry, finding/growing food, etc.. That would take care of most of their lifestyle, right? At the same time, I imagine they have a flare for the dramatic/beautiful, which is why they use so much glass -- for the impressive looks.
Oh, and I think the translated phrase, 'let-the-sands-favour-you' is a brilliant way to convey the world-building's depth discreetly!
I've been considering the Central-Desert-language more, and I think it'd be cool if we use inspiration from elements of Sumerian, Turkish, Hebrew, and the many languages of India, instead of solely Arabic.
For example, we might only have the vowels "ah" "ay" "ee" and "uw" sounds, represented by a, e, i and u respectively; feature borrowed from Sumerian. To make it sound more desert'y, I think we should focus on the consonants k, kh/ķ(which is pronounced like the Hebrew khaf, as opposed to the kaf which sounds like the English 'k'), h, s, sh/š(English 'sh,' as in she), r, rr/ř(rolled like a Spanish 'r' or double-'r'), b, t, v, n. Basically all either harder or windier sounds that make an sand-blown-from-one-dune-to-another sound to it. I'm still teetering on f, m and d, so tell me what you think of them. I'm thinking no dipthongs or tripthongs("Yue," "naïve," and "tryeth" all are dipthongs, where 2 vowels are next to each other and possibly 'blend' into one sound.) I think we should save that for the eventual East/South-Eastern Asian-inspired country that lies in the mountains directly bordering the desert...
My idea of the world we have down so far is attached below, and is still subject for change(especially the capitol city, it was honestly a bit of an arbitrary choice...).
Also, if you want to, any of you can take a screenshot/download or make your own version of the map and make any additions you'd like us to consider. (I'd recommend drawing in a different colour, just to keep everything clear. For instance, I'll do pink/light-blue, Flamarestii can use red/orange, Hex can do green/yellow, and Eclipse can do purple/dark-blue from now on.)
What do y'all think? Any points of contention, or does it all sound good?
(March 3, 2022 - 6:15 am)
Glass weapons would be interesting, but we might have to make up a new type of weapon. Unless the sand was ultra-strong (it could be, we could have an ultra-strong fire, or lightning glass… maybe a job could be making tempered glass that withstands force?) the weapon would shatter on impact, rendering it useless from then on. On the other hand, we could have a kind of weapon where that was the point, like a small glass ball that breaks and sends shards of glass flying. We could also have a glass coating over metal or stone, but then there would be no point in having the glass coating. My point is, we might not be able to use glass formed into real-world weapons, like swords or axes because that would be impractical. Of course, maybe our world doesn’t have practical weapons at all, being a primitive culture or not having the need of them.
What would our ‘elite’ people be? Governors/rulers of the village? Or priests in service of the sand god? It could go either way, depending on our religion.
We could keep sand-bending to the elite, or we could have a reclusive tribe who knows the lost art of sand-bending. Like maybe they’re a legend, so nobody knows if they actually exist. Or they could just be reclusive. Another possibility would be a guild—and people would be recruited or maybe have to pass entry trials to join and learn sand-bending. We could also have sand-bending be passed down by blood, into the veins of the ‘royal’ families. Or it could be an art that seems to be lost… until someone mysteriously recovers its powers.
I like your ideas for language stuff, but honestly I don’t think I can help that much. You seem much… better… at languages…
I’d like a language dialect or something that uses symbols, or just a key of symbols that everyone knows. Like certain types of writing are in symbols, or maybe magic spells? The mage/sand-bender could write them in the air for more complex spells/sand-bending (although sand-bending seems more like an intuitive practice than a complex, write-it-down-careful-deliberation process). We could also use symbols in architectural drawings/notes, or the king/mayor/governor/queen could use symbols somehow, as a show of status.
The map seems a bit generic so far. I like the idea of being near a body of water, maybe an ocean, that could be where the desert-people get their resources. I also think a river through the desert, or at least multiple oasises (or oasisi? or something else?) would also work.
We should think about main food sources, along with what kinds of food our people eat. We could use real-world plants that grow in the desert, or invent our own plants.
(March 3, 2022 - 1:59 pm)
- Exactly! Which would be why the glass weapons would be considered controversial, they shatter and cause a lot of damage, arguably in an unethical manner -- sorta like shrapnel, but nearly-invisible, especially with the smaller fragments. I guess the weapon would be useless afterwards, but maybe the military could be provided with special magic-imbued scrolls that reform sand(is 'sand-reforming scrolls' a good name?) or something like that? Think, a rod with the spear-point being glass, long curved daggers with the tips made of glass, and even decorated shields(modern 'bullet-proof' vests use insulated ceramic, so they can use wrapped glass)! If you still don't like it, there's no need to take this glass-weaponry any further, though. :)
- I don't love the idea of magic being passed down genetically, but having the sand-bending artificially contained within the nobles'/aristocracy's families as a way of maintaining power instead feels a lot more plausible. In other words, anyone could sandbend, but the method/training to do so are kept under lock and key by those in power so they can keep it that way. People would then be told/just come to believe that it was a bloodline-thing. Similarly, either before this system was implemented, or as a result of outcast children of the nobles, some people came together in the caves beneath the Central Desert, and their descendants, with the knowledge of sand-bending, become the Elusive Sand Tribe.
- Personally, I should think that the nobles and shaman-types are in the Court of the Royals, with Nobles monopolisling sand-manipulation and having their children taught by the Shamans on how to do so. (Think of them as the spiritual/intellectual class who only had sway due to abilities). As such, the Shamans are slightly lower(Clergy instead of Lords, in a way), but just as important and still very prestigious.
- Ooh, and I like that idea of the supposedly lost art of the sand-bending -- how about the elite's control over sand-manipulation is becoming weaker and weaker, to the point it is near non-existent, due to their 'misuse'/ill-will when learning/manifesting it. Then some spunky young fellow from the Elusive Sand Tribe, who for a very long time have been satisfied being, well, elusive, comes out of hiding and keeps their past a secret, while gaining followers/allies in their rise to a grand conflict with the elite(presumably corrupt). That could be the story of a villain or a hero, honestly! Do tell what y'all think about that plotline.
- Sorry about the whole languages thing, Hex. I get really excited about them, but I don't mean to overwhelm you or make you feel any less-up-to-the-task or anything, okay? :/
If you're not comfortable with a certain task, just say so and we'll move on to something you'd prefer doing!
- The symbol idea has a glow of potential, seems like a cool way to differentiate certain text/ritual'y-stuff or denote class/nobility/royalty.
- And yeah, the map is definitely as basic as I could imagine. I don't wanna be making all the geography up and then springing it on you people with no input, especially as even I don't have a clear idea of what it's all gonna look like yet. If you have any cartography/map-making prowess, feel free to figure out rivers and oases(I think that's the plura of oasis) in the space we have so far. Additionally, if you want to change the borders of the desert, please do! I only want to give us somewhere to start for now.
- Food, water, available building resources and environmental hazards all seem like good things to consider designing around for now; like you said, Hex.
- If you all have more suggestions/plans for the next small-steps for the world around the desert, I'd be happy to discuss so we can have a more precise map and plan moving forward!
(March 3, 2022 - 5:21 pm)
Some of it got cropped out, so I'll try again...
(March 3, 2022 - 1:17 pm)
Exactly! Which would be why the glass weapons would be considered controversial, they shatter and cause a lot of damage, arguably in an unethical manner -- sorta like shrapnel, but nearly-invisible, especially with the smaller fragments. I guess the weapon would be useless afterwards, but maybe the military could be provided with special magic-imbued scrolls that reform sand(is 'sand-reforming scrolls' a good name?) or something like that?
I don't love the idea of magic being passed down genetically, but having the sand-bending artificially contained within the nobles'/aristocracy's families as a way of maintaining power instead feels a lot more plausible. In other words, anyone could sandbend, but the method/training to do so are kept under lock and key by those in power so they can keep it that way. People would then be told/just come to believe that it was a bloodline-thing. Similarly, either before this system was implemented, or as a result of outcast children of the nobles, some people came together in the caves beneath the Central Desert, and their descendants, with the knowledge of sand-bending, become the Elusive Sand Tribe.
Ooh, and I like that idea of the supposedly lost art of the sand-bending -- how about the elite's control over sand-manipulation is becoming weaker and weaker, to the point it is near non-existent. Then some spunky young fellow from the Elusive Sand Tribe, who for a very long time have been satisfied being, well, elusive, comes out of hiding and keeps their past a secret, while gaining followers/allies up to a big conflict. That could be the story of a villain or a hero, honestly! Do tell what y'all think about that plotline.
Sorry about the whole languages thing, Hex. I get really excited about them, but I don't mean to overwhelm you or make you feel any less-up-to-the-task or anything, okay? :/
The symbol idea has a glow of potential, seems like a cool way to differentiate certain text/ritual'y-stuff or denote class/nobility/royalty.
And yeah, the map is definitely as basic as I could imagine. I don't wanna be making all the geography up and then springing it on you people with no input, especially as even I don't have a clear idea of what it's all gonna look like yet. If you have any cartography/map-making prowess, feel free to figure out rivers and oases(I think that's the plura of oasis) in the space we have so far. Additionally, if you want to change the borders of the desert, please do! I only want to give us somewhere to start for now.
Food, water, available building resources and environmental hazards all seem like good things to consider designing around for now, like you said, Hex.
And finally, if you three want any resources to help work with, there's WorldAnvil, Campfire Blaze, HelloFutureMe and Artifexian, which all help immensely with different aspects of this kind of thing.
(March 3, 2022 - 4:39 pm)