First of all, welcome to the CB! I've seen you around on a few other threads, and I've been wondering, is your username Tolkien inspired/related? My own name is, thanks for liking it BTW. I made it years ago on an "elvish name translator" thing. Obviously is wasn't truly real, but the combo I used to make it was my name and one of my friends last names. It was rather fun to do, and what can I say the name stuck! XD Well, enough about that!
Which of the books have you read? I've read The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings trilogy, and most of The Silmarillion. I do really want to read The Children of Huron, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
I love all the symbolism that Tolkien used, really great stuff that. I dunno if you're christian or not, but I went to a youth conference last year and went to a really great talk on Tolkien. We talked about how a lot of the characters symbolized at least a part of Christ. Like Frodo obviously symbolized Christ as the sacrificial lamb, and Gandalf being the prophet, and Aragorn the king. Then again, this might not make any sense at all to you, but I really, really enjoyed it.
You may not see it that way, but like C.S. Lewis, Tolkien was a Christen, and often put references to Christ or parts of Christianity into his writing. There's a really great quote from him I'd like to mention that gives light to this, it's from his essay "On Fairy-Stories" in the epilogue of it. Hopefully it makes sense, I did end up putting in basically the whole of the epilogue, so as to make more sense in what I'm trying to say. I do believe that to fully understand what Tolkien is saying here you have to know that the word, "eucatastrophe" means, "a sudden and favorable resolution of events in a story; a happy ending." Yes, it's a long read, but it's a worth while read.
So basically the point I was trying to make, was that Tolkien believed that in order for fairy-stories to be good fairy-stories, they had to shed light on the only true fairy-story, that of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I'm terribly sorry if this direction I took was not at all where you wanted to go with this thread. But we are discussing Tolkien! And I myself totally did not intend to go into such depth about it, but I felt I had to after mentioning the talk I went to, so that it would make more sense. Man, I do wish I could post the recording of the talk, it was very interesting and eye open in for me, and I would love for you guys to be able to hear it, because the pastor explains it much better than I!
Merenwe: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!! I am Christian too, and I really appreciate that someone else also sees the books from that perspective.
Yes, I would DEFINITELY say that Christ is portrayed in many different characters!
I would also say that they don't all purely represent Christ, however- Frodo represents us, the sinner, bearing the burden of sin, and at the end unwilling and unable to cast it away.
Did you know that the God of Middle-Earth, Eru, is the one who causes Gollum to fall off the ledge and into the fire? Which is very metaphorical, as Gollum represents Fallen Man- a low, evil, self-pitying creature- the creature Frodo was about to become. So with the drowning of Gollum and the Ring, both Frodo's burden and the doom that awaited him are destroyed forever!!! (sighs in blissful contentment)
And you are reading the Silmarillion!!!!!!!!!! And you read On Fairy-Stories!!!!!!!
Yes! Eucatastrophe is one of my favorite words!!!
I made up my username- it is the feminine case of the name of one of my characters in my story.
But it was very much inspired by Tolkien- he loved language (he wrote the books so that he could publish his languages, which you probably already know). :D
Cho: Yes! You are here too!!! maybe now we can have conversations on both the Hobbit discussion and this one! :D
For both of you: I would recommend to you both an online site called "The Tolkien Professor."
It is perfectly safe. Try out his lecture on the Hobbit- it will take your breath away! He uses "Eucatastrophe" too, Merenwe ;)
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submitted by Esthelle (Es-thel-ay, age Anonymous, The New World (February 9, 2016 - 12:57 pm)
Ohmygosh! Yayyy!! I was so afraid no one would get what I was saying. Oh, and I totally agree that none of the characters purely represent Christ, but quite a few have at least an aspect of Christ.
I will definitely check out that site! "Tolkien Gateway" is a great reference site for all things middle earth, they have great stuff there if you ever want to check it out.
I'll certainly have to find his lecture on The Hobbit! Thanks for the suggestion!
Hmm, just realized that the epilogue I posted wasn't included. XD Probably way too long. If you haven't read it, or if you want to read it again, just search Tolkien's essay, "On Fairy-Stories" and read the Epilogue of it. That's the part I was referring to.
Yay two other Christians on the CB! I'm a Christian too, Esthelle, Merenwe. I have read (or at least my dad has read to me) the hobbit, and I loved it. I've not read any other lord of rings books, or seen the movies though.
I agree Cho, the Christianity is more obvious in Narnia, but it's apparent in tLotR too, if you look.
I think the difference is that Lewis wrote the Chronicles of Narnia all around Christianity- that's basically what Narnia is all about.
Whereas with Middle Earth, Christianity flows in it and through it, flavoring it, but though it is a main ingredient in tLotR, it is not the only ingredient.
Tolkien noticed that England did not really have it's own mythology- so, he set out to create one for it.
Being a professor of language, he knew all about England's legend and poetry and story and history, so he used that as another one of the main ingredients in Arda (Middle-Earth).
Actually, he did not invent the term "Middle-Earth"- it is what the world was called by the English in the Olden Days- or as Tolkien would say, the "Elder Days".
So Middle-Earth is actually England! :) I wonder what America is - Valinor? I tend to doubt it ;)
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submitted by Esthelle (Es-thel-ay, age Anonymous, The New World (February 10, 2016 - 3:36 pm)
Hey everybody! What are some of your favorite character lines? Here are just a few of mine:
"Farewell! I go to find the sun." = Legolas. This is actually a very funny line, but you can't get it unless you read it along with it's paragraph. So, bad start :/
"By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" =Frodo
"Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu!" =Gimli
"I'll get there, if I leave everything but my bones behind, and I'll carry Mr. Frodo up myself, if it breaks my back and heart. So stop arguing!" =Sam
Many more soon to come. ;)
Here's a Trivia Question- In the films, Gandalf says "If in doubt, Meriadoc, just follow your nose" Does he say this in the Books? If not, what does he say in that scene? (Warning: This may or may not be a Trick Question. Answer at your own risk! ;) )
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submitted by Esthelle (Es-thel-ay, age Anonymous, The New World (February 14, 2016 - 3:24 pm)
First of all, that Legolas quote has to be one of my favorites. I always crack up when someone mentions it. Love Sam's as well.
Ah, I really don't have much to say right now. Er, how many times have you all read the books? I've read The Hobbit three times I think now, I've still only read The Lord of the Rings once, partially because the copies we own are falling apart. There's a few pages in The Two Towers that I've never read because they were missing from our book!
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submitted by Merenwe (February 16, 2016 - 6:36 pm)
Hi everyone!
I am brand-new to the Chatterbox, and don't know my way around very well, but I thought I'd try and start a discussion for Tolkien Fans.
Anyone else want to join in?
(February 7, 2016 - 7:44 pm)
Admins, could you please "TOP" this? For a little while at least :)
(February 8, 2016 - 6:33 pm)
Anyone???
(February 8, 2016 - 11:02 pm)
First of all, welcome to the CB! I've seen you around on a few other threads, and I've been wondering, is your username Tolkien inspired/related? My own name is, thanks for liking it BTW. I made it years ago on an "elvish name translator" thing. Obviously is wasn't truly real, but the combo I used to make it was my name and one of my friends last names. It was rather fun to do, and what can I say the name stuck! XD Well, enough about that!
Which of the books have you read? I've read The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings trilogy, and most of The Silmarillion. I do really want to read The Children of Huron, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
I love all the symbolism that Tolkien used, really great stuff that. I dunno if you're christian or not, but I went to a youth conference last year and went to a really great talk on Tolkien. We talked about how a lot of the characters symbolized at least a part of Christ. Like Frodo obviously symbolized Christ as the sacrificial lamb, and Gandalf being the prophet, and Aragorn the king. Then again, this might not make any sense at all to you, but I really, really enjoyed it.
You may not see it that way, but like C.S. Lewis, Tolkien was a Christen, and often put references to Christ or parts of Christianity into his writing. There's a really great quote from him I'd like to mention that gives light to this, it's from his essay "On Fairy-Stories" in the epilogue of it. Hopefully it makes sense, I did end up putting in basically the whole of the epilogue, so as to make more sense in what I'm trying to say. I do believe that to fully understand what Tolkien is saying here you have to know that the word, "eucatastrophe" means, "a sudden and favorable resolution of events in a story; a happy ending." Yes, it's a long read, but it's a worth while read.
So basically the point I was trying to make, was that Tolkien believed that in order for fairy-stories to be good fairy-stories, they had to shed light on the only true fairy-story, that of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I'm terribly sorry if this direction I took was not at all where you wanted to go with this thread. But we are discussing Tolkien! And I myself totally did not intend to go into such depth about it, but I felt I had to after mentioning the talk I went to, so that it would make more sense. Man, I do wish I could post the recording of the talk, it was very interesting and eye open in for me, and I would love for you guys to be able to hear it, because the pastor explains it much better than I!
(February 9, 2016 - 1:04 am)
I'm here! Huge Tolkien fan!
(February 9, 2016 - 9:24 am)
Merenwe: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!! I am Christian too, and I really appreciate that someone else also sees the books from that perspective.
Yes, I would DEFINITELY say that Christ is portrayed in many different characters!
I would also say that they don't all purely represent Christ, however- Frodo represents us, the sinner, bearing the burden of sin, and at the end unwilling and unable to cast it away.
Did you know that the God of Middle-Earth, Eru, is the one who causes Gollum to fall off the ledge and into the fire? Which is very metaphorical, as Gollum represents Fallen Man- a low, evil, self-pitying creature- the creature Frodo was about to become. So with the drowning of Gollum and the Ring, both Frodo's burden and the doom that awaited him are destroyed forever!!! (sighs in blissful contentment)
And you are reading the Silmarillion!!!!!!!!!! And you read On Fairy-Stories!!!!!!!
Yes! Eucatastrophe is one of my favorite words!!!
I made up my username- it is the feminine case of the name of one of my characters in my story.
But it was very much inspired by Tolkien- he loved language (he wrote the books so that he could publish his languages, which you probably already know). :D
Cho: Yes! You are here too!!! maybe now we can have conversations on both the Hobbit discussion and this one! :D
For both of you: I would recommend to you both an online site called "The Tolkien Professor."
It is perfectly safe. Try out his lecture on the Hobbit- it will take your breath away! He uses "Eucatastrophe" too, Merenwe ;)
(February 9, 2016 - 12:57 pm)
Ohmygosh! Yayyy!! I was so afraid no one would get what I was saying. Oh, and I totally agree that none of the characters purely represent Christ, but quite a few have at least an aspect of Christ.
I will definitely check out that site! "Tolkien Gateway" is a great reference site for all things middle earth, they have great stuff there if you ever want to check it out.
I'll certainly have to find his lecture on The Hobbit! Thanks for the suggestion!
(February 9, 2016 - 4:12 pm)
Hmm, just realized that the epilogue I posted wasn't included. XD Probably way too long. If you haven't read it, or if you want to read it again, just search Tolkien's essay, "On Fairy-Stories" and read the Epilogue of it. That's the part I was referring to.
(February 9, 2016 - 6:18 pm)
I am exultantly blissful too, Merenwe! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Tolkien Gateway? Got it! I am soooooo checking that out! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
(February 9, 2016 - 7:55 pm)
Yay two other Christians on the CB! I'm a Christian too, Esthelle, Merenwe. I have read (or at least my dad has read to me) the hobbit, and I loved it. I've not read any other lord of rings books, or seen the movies though.
(April 30, 2016 - 12:42 pm)
Mere, I did not know that he put that much stuff about Christianity in. You can recognize it in Narnia, but not so much in LOTR.
(February 10, 2016 - 10:52 am)
I agree Cho, the Christianity is more obvious in Narnia, but it's apparent in tLotR too, if you look.
I think the difference is that Lewis wrote the Chronicles of Narnia all around Christianity- that's basically what Narnia is all about.
Whereas with Middle Earth, Christianity flows in it and through it, flavoring it, but though it is a main ingredient in tLotR, it is not the only ingredient.
Tolkien noticed that England did not really have it's own mythology- so, he set out to create one for it.
Being a professor of language, he knew all about England's legend and poetry and story and history, so he used that as another one of the main ingredients in Arda (Middle-Earth).
Actually, he did not invent the term "Middle-Earth"- it is what the world was called by the English in the Olden Days- or as Tolkien would say, the "Elder Days".
So Middle-Earth is actually England! :) I wonder what America is - Valinor? I tend to doubt it ;)
(February 10, 2016 - 3:36 pm)
Hey everybody! What are some of your favorite character lines? Here are just a few of mine:
"Farewell! I go to find the sun." = Legolas. This is actually a very funny line, but you can't get it unless you read it along with it's paragraph. So, bad start :/
"By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" =Frodo
"Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu!" =Gimli
"I'll get there, if I leave everything but my bones behind, and I'll carry Mr. Frodo up myself, if it breaks my back and heart. So stop arguing!" =Sam
Many more soon to come. ;)
Here's a Trivia Question- In the films, Gandalf says "If in doubt, Meriadoc, just follow your nose" Does he say this in the Books? If not, what does he say in that scene? (Warning: This may or may not be a Trick Question. Answer at your own risk! ;) )
(February 14, 2016 - 3:24 pm)
And please, don't abandon this, everybody! I am always open to suggestions for making it better! :)
(February 15, 2016 - 12:36 am)
First of all, that Legolas quote has to be one of my favorites. I always crack up when someone mentions it. Love Sam's as well.
Ah, I really don't have much to say right now. Er, how many times have you all read the books? I've read The Hobbit three times I think now, I've still only read The Lord of the Rings once, partially because the copies we own are falling apart. There's a few pages in The Two Towers that I've never read because they were missing from our book!
(February 16, 2016 - 6:36 pm)