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PRONOUNS HELP PLEASE!!!
Chatterbox: Down to Earth
PRONOUNS HELP PLEASE!!!
PRONOUNS HELP PLEASE!!!
So. Umm. I don't know how to explain this except by starting at the very beginning (a very good place to start... anyone get this reference? If so, a cookie for you!) because I am more comfortable writing large quantities (sorry admins. I just... yeah.) So. 3 years ago, I was a very ignorant little girl. I lived a life of sunshine and rainbows, I was spoiled - well, I still am, but I'm much more aware of it now - oblivious, and knew nothing of the troubles of the world. My friend once told me that police were giving out toys to kids to persuade them they were good, and I was like, why would they need to? Aren't they good anyway? *sigh* The ignorance of childhood. I probably still don't know a lot, but I make more of an effort to be knowledgeable. Anyways, that summer, between one grade and the next, I met up with my friend who liked to talk about crushes and stuff for summer school. In her mind, I was very innocent because I never once have said a bad word (still true, I don't count two words though, bc the first one is the name of a goddess in Norse Mythology and I'm not religious, the second one bc it's a donkey and they use it in Narnia and it's featured in one of my favorite of my dad's wise sayings (my dad accidentally said it once when he was explaining something). And even then, I only use those words talking about mythology or quoting my dad (who didn't use it in a "bad" way btw, no swearing or whatever)) and because, as I have already established, I didn't know much about the world at the time (we were doing a discussion of The Greenglass House in class (which I had already read and loved even then) and one of the ppl was like, "Milo's sus (not a spoiler)", and I, the younger, was like "whaaa??? (oc, I raised my hand before I said it, and phrased the question in a very polite way, points for my perceived innocence)". Now "sus" is used regularly by me and others alike.). Anyways. So, when she was talking about "gay" people, no offense, I said, "isn't that ppl who are really happy?" Hence, my introduction to the world of LGBTQIA+ (well, kinda introduction, most of what I know is from books and reading, so I was more introduced when I started devouring material and stuff about the subject).
Now skip to present day. I'm an advocate. I learn about a subject, then I lecture persistently and passionately about it (you guys may have seen an example of this on my gendered reading thread). I feel very strongly about LGBTQIA+ rights, even though I keep silent about it (yes, I lecture only in my head, in my imagination, in daydreams, to close friends, to my unwilling brother, once to my mom when she was saying my cousin who's male is weird for liking Disney princesses, but never really where it counted. Unless it came to bugs. Then my instincts would kick in and I'd be like DON'T SQUISH THEM WHAT DID THEY EVER DO TO YOU!!! And run over and maybe occasionally out-of-characterly push someone. It's just easier to defend that than... you know. Things ppl rly have strong opinions on. Otherwise, I am my usual shy self. (But I do a pretty good death glare)). Even though I'm a huge supporter of LGBTQIA+ rights, I don't really feel connected to it. I barely know anyone who's LGBTQIA+ (this is not rly present present day, it's like months/years ago present day, when I knew only 1 person who is LGBTQIA+, and this person was just someone I knew of, not really knew), and I feel much more strongly about Girl Power and Stop Asian Hate. I am totally and completely a girl, female, she/her, wholly. When I want to do something, I say you're a strong, quiet girl, and you can do this, insert real name. I still do. And I still fully believe it. Until. You guys know I transferred to a different school. I talk about it on every thread. Something about my new school is that it actually considers the LGBTQIA+ community. There're gender neutral restrooms. People don't assume. Some teachers go by Mx. But what's really important, is you have to introduce your pronouns. And it's a fancy private school with rotating classes, so you have to do it many times in two days. The first day, I said she/her, completely fine with it. I think. Maybe it was already starting by then. The second day, I had to write pronouns on a piece of paper. And seeing she/her, in pencil like that? It felt wrong. It felt plain wrong. And I was scared. Don't get me wrong, I know having different pronouns that the ones you were assigned at birth is perfectly fine. It's perfectly normal. I just didn't expect it to happen to me. I had built so much of my identity around being female. It was something I held on to, grasped, when things were tough. I was so so proud of it. I was happy, yes, Ik how that sounds, but I was happy because of it. I was female! How awesome was that? And then I started to lose that feeling. But anyways. I like to sometimes narrate my actions in my mind. I always use she/her. That was the second time I noticed. That's when I thought, this is getting real. This is real. Right? Right? How do you know? All those books... This Is Our Rainbow, Summer of Impossibilities, Fresh Ink, especially Too Bright to See... this is what they described it as. A feeling of right. A feeling of wrong. A knowing. And yet, I'm sentimental. I surround myself with familiar, comforting things, perhaps hold on too tight, know, very confidently, who I am. I thought I did. I also thought this strange feeling would go away after a few days. But it's been 4 days now, and I'm not so certain anymore. It, and I know I keep on using "it", which is probably disrespectful, but that's how I feel about it, seems to actually be getting worse. Two days ago, I was still comfortable with "'she', though not 'her'". Then it switched. Now both are only sometimes. "They" seems to be worming its way into my thoughts more. Yesterday, I still considered myself a girl. A few minutes ago, writing that sentence around the top of this long long thing, sorry again, "I was a very ignorant little girl". I'm even starting to doubt that. I am a demigirl. Does that truly feel better, or am I convincing myself it does? Is my mind playing tricks on me?
So, I guess what I really need help on, are tips on how to adjust, how to embrace my new identity and let go of my old one. Thank you so so much if you read all that. Thank you admins. I don't know why you wouldn't, but please please please post this, preferably the whole of it, because I really need this to be posted. I really need people to know the whole story, which I feel is really important. I'm just scared and uncertain when life is usually a breeze, and... just please please please please please please please post this admins. Please. At least consider it. If you really can't (and I mean really really can't), please give me some way to get a copy of this. I at least need to keep all these feelings, look them over again. Thank you. And thank you to this whole CB, to all you CBers, you're perfect beyond measure, and I mean every single word of this. You have changed my life. You have given me support, and love, and laughs, and awe, and appreciation. You have given me a safe safe, a place where I can be myself, surrounded by friends, laughing with wild, reckless abandon, unafraid to be my whole true self (and using many caps and exclamations). You've given me a home. I love you all. Platonically, of course!
(btw, I am aware this doesn't really sound like me how I present myself on the CB. Where all the all caps?? The overused exclamations?? But I promise you, this is me. Just a different side. Though, as you can see, this side isn't any shorter :))
submitted by CelineBurning Bright, age As Needed, The FireMist Sea
(August 28, 2023 - 12:53 am)
(August 28, 2023 - 12:53 am)
@Celine.
OhmyGOSH I used to feel this way to, but I've got some tips. And facts you can consider.
---Genderfluid
This could (or could not be) what you are feeling, but being genderfluid means that your gender changes, like it's shifting all the time, like one second you feel like (for example) a girl, and the next second a demigirl, and then next second non-binary. Me specifcally, I'm not genderfluid, so if any CBers reads this and I've got it all wrong, please let me know!
---A minor tip...?
Every day, you look into the mirror and see yourself looking back. You see Celine (I'm assuming). You are growing older every day, and no matter what, you feel like the same person. Sometimes it's hard to grow into a new identity. Trust me, I know how that feels. A way to help, and I know this sounds bad, is to compare your present self with an old self. Write down what you like now, and what you liked then. Look at both lists. See the good changes, and think about how to improve the bad. Also, think about this. Let's say, when you were "a very ignorant little girl" you're favorite color was pink. Now, let's say, it's blue. I'm sure you understand what it's like to grow out of one thing and into the next. Try to think about it that way when you are trying to grow out of your old identity. I'm not sure this will work, but it did for me, so I'm passing it on.
---Therapy
When I was trying to come out to my friends and family that I was non-binary, I resorted to therapy. You might already have a therapist, or you might not, but either way you don't have to tell me bc that's your own personal buisness. Maybe you can talk to a counselor, if you want. Anyway, you can bring it up to a therapist and/or counselor, they would love to help you through this. I've finished therapy now, and did help a lot, and I hope it may as well for you, to.
---Books!
Ok, let's face it. Who doesn't like books? Anyway, I see that you read lots of pride books, good for you
! Moving on, you can maybe borrow a non-fiction book(s) from the library about understanding gender identity, all the different (known) types of pride, etc.
Celine, that basically wraps up my comment. I'm so glad that I could comment this!
(August 28, 2023 - 11:43 am)
(Just to break the glitch!)
(August 28, 2023 - 11:44 am)
TOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPP
(August 28, 2023 - 11:48 am)
Wow. Wow wow wow. Thank you so so so so so so so so so you don't even know how many sos but it's infinity sos much for posting this admins!! I was afraid you guys wouldn't! Tysm!! Really, truly!! <3 x a million bajillion very large number
And thank you so much too Cloud Bunny! Books! And.. huh... gender fluid... that makes a lot of sense actually. Today I woke up very easily saying "I am female", which was so weird after 4 days of not being able to say that without being like... *gaspp* or whatever. I can't imagine it now, but I wrote it in a poem like having breath sucked out of me (actually, I was in the middle of a poem using they/them cuz it felt right and then suddenly unconsciously started using she/her and I was so used to it I didn't realize until I was like... wait. It's gone now. So suddenly.) But yeah, that makes lot of sense, tysm, bc now I'm she/her... mostly? Can it work that way? Well, before (like this morning and the whole day at school) I was fully again, like there was nothing truer, like duh. Though I know my feelings from before were very real. So... yeah. Also, that was a good idea about the mirror. Btw, my favorite color actually was pink and now it's teal (though pink is still nice too)! And, thank you again admins! Bc yes, I rly do need to say it again.
(August 28, 2023 - 8:34 pm)
I know how you feel, Celine. Not in a I-can-sympathize-with-you way, but in a I-actually-experienced-this-myself way. So I'll do what I can to offer advice, but keep in mind that I'm by no means an expert so take my words with a grain of salt. :)
Gender is confusing. So are pronouns. And your pronouns don't necessarily have to connect to your gender - you could identify as nonbinary and use she/her pronouns, or as female and use they/them pronouns, for instance. And that's perfectly okay!
Whether you choose to use labels or not is completely up to you. Some people like to use labels, because it reflects how you think about yourself and others, and it can help you find a community of people like you who can offer support. However, some people find labels confining, or otherwise don't want to label their gender or sexuality, and that's okay too. Whether you decide to use a label or not, here are some terms you might find useful.
Demigirl - since you used this term, you probably know what it means, but I'll include it anyway. Demigirls only partially identify as female, and partially as something outside the gender binary (nonbinary, for instance).
Genderfae - I think there are other terms for this, but this is the one I've been using for myself. It's a form of genderfluidity that never encompasses feeling masculine. So, some days, she/her might feel right, and you might feel very feminine, but other times, you might not connect to feeling feminine at all, and prefer to use they/them pronouns.
Juxera - people who identify as juxera are connected to femininity, but different than the way women are connected to femininity. it's female-aligned, but not necessarily female.
Girlflux - there's also other terms for this one, but I'll just use girlflux. It's a form of genderflux when one's identity feels fluctuating intensities of female-ness.
There's dozens of other terms out there, so I suggest you do some research to find one that fits you! And just remember, people's identities are changing all the time, and people can update their pronouns to match their evolving sense of their identity. And it's okay if it takes you a while to figure out exactly how you feel - I'm still figuring it out!
I suggest putting your pronouns in your age box - if you're still figuring them out, you can have people use those pronouns for you (in conversation, or in a written picturing or something) and see what feels right. You could try she/they (alternating between sentences), they/them, and you might want to try out neopronouns - xe/xem, for instance. (I could do a written picturing for you in whatever pronouns you'd like to try out - if you're open to that, let me know! :) )
I hope this helped, at least a little bit. :)
(August 29, 2023 - 7:19 am)
pangolin, this is much better than what I had to say. Also, I have never heard half of those genders! Thanks so much for not only helping Celine, but teaching other CBers (me, for instance) different gender identitys!
(August 29, 2023 - 9:44 am)
That may mean you're genderfluid, like Cloud Bunny said! You also might want to take a look at terms like girlflux, which are lesser known. Girlflux is when you feel more or less like a girl sometimes, at least that's my understanding of what I read. I believe there are also terms for someone who sort of drifts between being a girl and being nonbinary. Genderfluid is one of the better known terms, but there are many others if you decide genderfluid isn't what you want to use. For now you also may just like to use terms like "genderqueer," "unlabeled," or "questioning," which are more broad and give you space to figure out your identity.
I agree with Cloud Bunny, you should definitely check out what the library has to offer! There are many books on being queer you can find at your library.
There are also many sources online. I don't think the Admins will let me talk about other sites but there are many sources for LGBTQIA+ youth available to you that you might want to check out.
Good luck! We're always here to support you when you need it.
(August 29, 2023 - 7:54 am)
Ah, this happens. I knew something about LGBTQ+ stuff before I came on the CB, but it was here that I found out some people actually use "they/them" pronouns, along with a few other kinds which I still don't even know what they mean, like "ae/aer." And it does kind of grow on you. I actually imagined using she/they pronouns sometimes - not seriously, but just imagining what it would be like. I never will, though, because I know perfectly well I'm a girl, through and through :) I think that, especially for young people like us, when we're in a community of people who use a variety of pronouns, we start to want to change our pronouns too, because that's just how people are (especially when they're young - their identities are still very fluid and flexible). We want to copy what we see around us, without necessarily being what we see around us. I in no way want to invalidate what you're saying, and if you truly feel that way, good for you for accepting it! But if you didn't feel that way before coming to your new school, maybe you should take some time to think about it some more? Idk, it's just always good to make decisions slowly :)
Also, I want to take this opportunity to ask something that I've been wondering for a while. Supposedly, there is no "right" way to be a girl. You can be one without being ultra-feminine. So how can it be that a certain way of being is seen as not female? I consider that actually insulting to girls, because it's like you're saying, "You can't be this way and be female. Girls have to be another way." Could someone please explain that to me? :)
(August 29, 2023 - 10:08 am)
A lot of people assume nonbinary and trans identities are just people insulting girls and women when they're really not. You can dress or act any way you like and still fully identify as a girl and use she/her pronouns, and nobody here was ever saying you can't - most queer people I've met are very feminist. Your gender identity does not relate to how you dress or act - that's how you feel inside. Gender expression is how you present yourself - that's how you dress and act. You can express yourself however you want and still identify with whatever pronouns you say you identify with.
I think you want to do more research about it, to be honest. Nobody here is anti-feminist, and nobody is trying to insult girls. There are many books available and useful resources online. Please, please do your best to learn about this - I don't say this because I'm trying to "make you queer" but because we need good allies and knowledgeable people out there who aren't queer. Your kind nature and ability to learn more about others without judgment could make you an amazing ally even if you are not queer.
I might add more later but I have to go!
(August 29, 2023 - 12:06 pm)
i think this is a brilliant way of putting it! exactly what i was thinking.
(August 29, 2023 - 2:15 pm)
Thanks! We do often seem to have the same ideas, I've noticed - often I read one of your comments and instantly I'm like "yes this is so TRUE why doesn't everyone think like Tsuki??" :)
(August 30, 2023 - 9:18 am)
pronouns don't equal gender! you can also be feminine and use pronouns other than she/her. also, though your (@Poinsettia's) experience is obviously valid, it sounds like Celine is questioning using other pronouns pretty seriously. i don't think that people actually going and changing their pronouns just because other people actually happens often; even you said that you never considered using them seriously. that being said, there's nothing wrong with people questioning and realizing they're cis or want to use the pronouns they were assigned at birth. it's just that in this world, that's not generally safe and that's seen as wrong, so people doing that is seen as wrong when it shouldn't be. being wrong about pronouns hurts nobody.
I definitely agree not to rush though.
also, just for reference, you can be a girl through and through and use she/they. if you don't want to that's perfectly fine ofc, i just want to be clear that's a thing that happens :) and for the record, there is no "right way" to be a girl (or a boy, or any other gender, equally as importantly). it's totally possible to be fully and completely and solely a girl and be incredibly (stereotypically) unfeminine, and that happens a lot - there's a lot of butch people in this world :D but some people simply aren't the gender they're assigned at birth. (i don't think you were saying that trans people don't exist or anything, i just want to be very clear about that because basically everything you said is often taken to its extreme and used by conservatives to deny that trans people do exist.)
More tips coming for Celine but too much words for now :D
(August 29, 2023 - 3:57 pm)
*just to be clear that absolutely can happen and the thing about "gender doesn't dictate who we are" is particularly true. i just wanted to add some nuance :D
(August 29, 2023 - 4:08 pm)
I totally agree about how wonderful the CB is, by the way! Just like you say, it's a home :) and I'm really grateful for it.
Almost forgot to say that I don't really have any tips on what to do about pronouns, other than that you can be rather unfeminine and still use she/her pronouns, but idk if that will help... And that I think who we really are hasn't got much to do with our genders... and you specifically are such a nice, kind, enthusiastic, warm person, and I think you should just keep being you! :)
(August 29, 2023 - 10:17 am)
ahahahaaaAAAAA literally meeee—
no but actually, this is something I'm also struggling with, for a lot of the same reasons. I keep having to write or say my pronouns for things because it's a new school year and stuff—and it used to be a simple she/her, move on. But now I stare at that she/her and I hate it. But I'm not ready to put anything else, or explain to anyone—friends, parents, etc, (even maybe the CB, because I know some people on it irl)—and I don't even exactly know what I would put. *proceeds to run away and hide from my problems*
I don't have any advice. But I want you to know that you're not alone—I'm here for you, the CB is here for you, and a lot of us have/are going through very similar things.
(August 29, 2023 - 2:00 pm)