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@Jaybells: Made-up Langua
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@Jaybells: Made-up Langua
@Jaybells: Made-up Languages Chat Thread!!
Here's the thread you suggested! So nice that you like to make up languages and worlds too! I've invented a lot of countries, but only one language - it's supposed to be spoken by an imaginary tribe of Native Americans...
I've heard of Tolkien's languages - I think it's so amazing that he actually finished making them up. I'm still not done with mine! I wonder what it would be like to learn Elvish.
submitted by Poinsettia, age whatcareI, Narnia
(September 25, 2022 - 1:55 pm)
(September 25, 2022 - 1:55 pm)
Ooh, that sounds so cool! Pls do share if you're comfortable!! In return, we'd be happy to help in any way we can, just let us know! :D
(November 10, 2022 - 5:52 pm)
@Miriam H, thanks for sharing some of Cassian vocabulary! I can definitely see how you were inspired by Latin. :)
@Sterling, I'd be happy to help you with your languages! :) What would you specifically like help with?
And now, moving on to Ardira Laila... I'm going to jump in and work out some rough first ideas... for choosing a language to use as a framework, maybe our framework should be English so that it doesn't get too complicated, but we can add tweaks as we go along.
I thought perhaps there shouldn't be any word for "and," since this is a watery, fluid language. Like one could say, "He picked up the apple, ate it," instead of "He picked up the apple AND ate it." Other conjunctions like "or" would probably be too useful to leave out, though.
Maybe a bit of basic vocabulary could go like this:
-Shelaniarlai: Water - "Shele" meaning "what", "aniar" meaning "making up" and "lai" ocean, so put it all together and you have "what makes up the ocean" - eg water.
-People: La. By the way, Jaybells, should we include water-people (mermaids, basically) or just have dolphins and other ocean animals?
-Waves: Shelaniarlai kandari (kandari meaning movement)
As for sentence structure... hmm, that requires thought. What sentence structure sounds fluid and movement-filled and oceanlike??
Btw, in a book called The Lost Road and Other Writings, it talks about how Tolkien followed specific rules in order to make his languages sound authentic. He took into account how culture would have made them evolve over time, and tweaked them accordingly, which is why they sound so much like real languages. I just thought I'd mention it here, in case anyone was interested in reading it and getting more insights on how to create languages. :)
(November 10, 2022 - 8:16 pm)
Yes, for most occasions, I choose to base off of English. Latin works well, but some of the endings and declensions get a little crazy, so you need some practice in the language itself before using it as a framework.
I like the idea of not using and! It would definitely add some flow to the language. (See what I did there? hehehee) *Frank Herbert intensifies*
For sentence structure, I like the idea of sentences being made of only one word made of separate words that meld together nicely, creating a water-like effect on the scrambled words and yet it sounds good.
If you want to get into changes over time, that's an entire category of its own. You'd need to know the history of the world the language is in as though it's your own world. All I have done is created a few different dialects for Cassian. (an altered one for the Csaithunin, an altered one for the elves, etc.)
Just a few thoughts.
Jibbers says ddmfn. I think he says "see da muffin"
(November 11, 2022 - 1:52 pm)
Looks amazing so far!!
I like the idea that sentences flow without conjunctions! Maybe we could expand that to the pronunciation itself; kinda like in French where in spoken language worlds blend into a word-smoothie and flow from the speakers' lips?
Then sentence structure could be loose like in Russian and to an extent Latin (or so I've heard with the latter), and you just say idea/word that first occurs to you, that the rest kinda tumbles out like a waterfall! To make it work, we just have to make groups out of each category: like nouns will all have similar traits, or the same ending(s); verbs will always have a conjunction of sorts or word indicating the noun it is attached to, etc.; and adjectives/adverbs have a 'connecting word' or are literally pushed into the middle of what they're describing (like instead of "running fast," "runfasting" or something like that.)
If that seems like too much or incongruent with Ardira Laila, we could maybe put action first, since Ocean-related stuff often has such a feeling of contant flux. Then the noun, and lastly the description(s), much like in Spanish or most of French (think "cat black" instead of "black cat").
Regarding who speaks Ardira Laila, I think that it's kinda important to consider the physical limitations of different species though. Like, if we're literally taking actual dolphins like those on earth, they most likely couldn't make some of the sounds we're using now. But perhaps this language could be one used mainly by humanoids, and there are other ways of communicating for other species.
On the other hand, we're making up languages and worlds; we could literally just remove those limitations somehow, lol. I think it would still be cool to indicate how non-humanoids have something of an 'otherly' accent to distinguish them though...
It could also be cool to utilise the ocean itself and how it would effect sound. Maybe birds, humanoids, and those who can survive being at the surface for a while prefer Ardira Laila, but underwater must transition to a more whale-like or physical way of communicating, or there's an underwater modification of the language where everything is stretched out (maybe we could even add tones?) so others can hear it properly? Or maybe everyone is telepathic, and only forms the sounds in their heads so none of this really matters. XD
I'm just throwing out suggestions though, if you'd rather just focus on the language itself, pay me no mind here. :)
The Lost Road and Other Writings is so cool! Thanks for mentioning it here!! :D
(November 11, 2022 - 2:01 pm)
Mmm, I like that analogy! Delicious word-smoothie mmm...
We should definitely make it flow somehow. I like the idea of it not having much structure, where you just have an idea, you say it, and the rest just goes whoosh and suddenly you've just recited something that in English takes an hour to say whereas in Ardira Laila, it takes a few minutes.
Maybe these could be just some sort of water-creature, like a mermaid except cooler, more expanding on the theme of oceans instead of just fish. Maybe they could be shapeshifters! Or seals, or otters. They could shapeshift into otters, yesss. I have a nice poem about otters somewhere, if you want to expand upon the theme of otter-shifters maybe I'll get off me lazy bum and find it :P
(November 11, 2022 - 5:16 pm)
Yes yes yes I like your ideas about sentence structure, Jaybells! I think action-noun-description would be good, but having everything flow just as the speaker likes would be even more oceanlike. Maybe the latter could be used for informal occasions, like chatting with your friends, and the former would be for serious events like government meetings and so on.
Also, that's a good idea of having the humanoids and other surface-dwelling creatures speak Ardira Laila, but the others speak a different way - maybe they could use their own language, but use an underwater version of Ardira Laila when they have to communicate with the humanoids. The underwater version could be like you suggested, being more physical and when spoken, pronounced differently. Basically it would be a whole separate dialect.
As for the main speakers, I think they should basically be humanoids, but if they want to they can change into otters or something. That would be interesting! What should they call themselves? "Laila" means "people of the ocean," so they could always be named that, but maybe they could have a longer name that reflects their identity better.
Should they live in groups, or just be solitary? Maybe small family groups would work best, but there could be overarching governments of each area to take care of disputes and so on. And if so, what words should be used for the groups and governments?
(November 13, 2022 - 10:25 am)
Just popping in quickly to say maybe pods would be a good idea, kinda like clans or something for familial structure. A loose overarching government sounds about right, and YES SEA OTTERS AHHHHH!!!
(November 13, 2022 - 11:50 pm)
So about Fancy English... wanna talk about that some more?
I love the idea so much, and would like nothing more than to play around with it, but I find that over the years I have inhibited my more chaotic creativity, resulting in a dryness of ideas when it comes to this...
Pls help :'/
(November 16, 2022 - 2:07 pm)
Yes, I'd love to work on that! And "Fancy English" is a great name for it, by the way!
So... hmm. Inhibited creativity is always a problem. I've been struggling with something similar for some time now. I think mainly it comes from being too worried about whether ideas are "good enough" or not, and whether they're worth working on, at least in my case. Or it can be just happen when one has overused one's creativity and needs fresh ideas. Some kind of change of scene, or important experience, might help with that. Or else just creating away without stressing too much about it - just imagine whatever comes to mind. Probably not as easy as it sounds, but just brainstorming or allowing yourself to imagine anything might help.
As for Fancy English. Honestly I think this'll be easier than a new language, because it's just redoing a previous one. One idea we could work on for starters, is the names of colors - rather than just "red," "blue," "green," there are lots of options for more interesting names. The name could start with the name of something in nature sharing that color, and then have a suffix at the end meaning "colored." We could find a suffix for it, or just make one up. If the suffix were "arden" for instance (don't ask me why, it's just the made-up jumble of letters I happened to think of):
-Green: Leafarden
-Blue: Skyarden
-Orange: Firearden
Other areas of language that we could start with are ordinary things in nature, (like trees, sky, water, people, storms), or greetings and other phrases, or... gosh, anything! I'd better go now, so I'll stop here, but it's so much fun to think about this!
Later maybe I'll work on Ardira Laila a bit more, if that's okay with you :)
(November 16, 2022 - 9:24 pm)
That's a great idea! And don't mind me, I'm just keeping myself busy as you work on Ardira Laila some more!
(November 18, 2022 - 7:58 am)
aaah I'm so sorry I'm always late at posting on this thread! I haven't lost interest, don't worry!
For Ardira Laila, I think I'm going to focus a little on the worldbuilding for now, since that'll help for developing the language later (and also it's just interesting XD). Here's what I'm thinking of doing: there are two versions, one structured and one unstructured, like we thought of earlier. The structured one is Ardira Lailan (the n means formal or structured) and is used for serious occasions. Which brings us to the concept of government. They're mostly ungoverned, but the heads of each family meet every few months or so to discuss regional matters and alliances and so on. The heads of each family are usually elderly, and can be male or female. In fact, usually there are two heads - a grandmother and a grandfather, who work together to ensure the security of the family. (Unless they're really old or want to be "retired," in which case it's the mother and father or a great-uncle or something.) Men and women working together instead of against each other is a very important concept in ocean culture. (I wish people today focused more on unity and cooperation between men and women instead of quarrelling between the two genders...) Oh, and also young people are given a voice in government because they often have a lot of good proposals and solutions.
So those are my ideas... do you have any more ideas for Fancy English?
This is kind of off-topic, but have you been watching the World Soccer Cup by any chance? It started today and my mind is full of soccer :) I love watching soccer games, particularly in World Cups, but I kind of wish this World Cup wasn't in Qatar.
Iffy says wwfyi. WW, for your information? Okay, Iffy, I get it... there's something important to do with "ww" (whatever that is) in CAPTCHA-land...
(November 20, 2022 - 9:24 pm)
i've been looking at your thread and i have a word for you if thats alright
QUIREN:a singer,a bard,a person who is in a quire.
(November 26, 2022 - 3:43 pm)
That's a really nice word, Luna Silvermoon! It sounds sort of like it comes from the Lord of the Rings books :) Thank you!
(November 27, 2022 - 10:30 am)
(November 27, 2022 - 6:04 pm)
*revives this amazing thread*
GUYS. WHY DID THIS DIE?!?!
Alright. So, you all know that the theme for the writing competition this issue is the ocean? And for Ardira Laila, I had suggested sea otters. I just finished writing the story for the competition (I'll send it in when I get the chance), and it features something kind of like this. The rules say that the story has to be my own idea, so does it still count as my own if it was my idea to use otters? kfjsndwd such confusion. Anywaaays, this thread totally needs reviving, and we should make a thread more about shapeshifting sea otters. It doesn't specifically talk about Ardira Laila, but I'm still worried that it could be against the rules. I hope it doesn't!
Even if Ardira Laila uses otters, I could still make a language for them. Or you all could help me thread together Ardira Laila and the otter-shifters! I don't know.
Miriam, please note that the March 2023 Cricket League contest is to write a poem about the sea, with a limit of 24 lines. The contest description is posted at cricketmagkids.com/contests.
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(March 4, 2023 - 3:59 pm)