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Silver & Hex discussion thread!
Here's a place to talk about all of our Tolkien and Les Mis thoughts (I have quiteee a few) plus anything that comes up as well! It's so great to have someone else to talk to about this stuff because I don't know anyone irl and sometimes it just feels like I'm talking to myself lol. I'll kick things off once the thread is published :)
submitted by Silver Crystal, age Milky Way, Infinity
(December 30, 2023 - 10:36 pm)
(December 30, 2023 - 10:36 pm)
bottominggg
(December 31, 2023 - 9:48 am)
Topinggg
(December 31, 2023 - 4:18 pm)
thanks for making this thread! it'll be fun to nerd out about these books :D
okay I started listening to the Silmarillion audiobook—something I do almost never because I find it hard to pay attention to what's going on when it's verbal. But it's winter break and I have time for once and so far I'm really enjoying it! I keep zoning out though and I'll probably have to read it after/listen to it again when I'm done to actually absorb what's going on lol (and now I can't spell any of the names XD)
I'm almost done with Les Mis!! 150-ish more pages! My favorite characters so far are Gavroche and Enjolras :D "You ought to sell all your hairs at a hundred francs apiece. That would make you five hundred francs."
it's interesting to me to see what's been cut out to make the abridged version. None of his larger tangents—very little battle of Waterloo and no Paris sewer systems made it, unfortunately. A lot of the beginning part with Monsieur Madeline and Cosette and the Thénardiers was condensed as well.
I don't know a lot about the French Revolution... I should research that a bit more.
do you know if there's a reason for Gavroche's elephant? I was really confused the first time I read that and I googled it—it seems like there was an actually fairly important elephant statue-thing but it still feels very arbitrary haha
(January 2, 2024 - 3:05 am)
Ahh the Silm! I'm so glad you decided to read it! What are your thoughts so far? Also yeah, the names are all a nightmare to remember. When I was 14-ish I got so obsessed w the Silm that I memorized dozens of characters Queyna and Sindarin names (which is like three/four names for each person). I still remember most of them but there was a LOT
WOAH you tore through Les Mis! That was so fast!!! I envy your reading skills. I love Gavroche, he's such an underrated character. And Enjolras!!! I don't mean to get too nerdy here but he's one of my favorite characters ever and I love him so much. He's a charming young man capable of being terrible! The scene with Combeferre when Enj shoots the soldier while crying; "He might be your brother" "He is" AHHH. Also... I wasn't the only one that noticed some very intense queercoding between him and Grantaire, right? I mean, Grantaire "loved, admired, and venerated" Enj? "No one loves the light like the blind man"? "He had need of Enjolras"? The whole "be serious" "I am wild" scene??? The scene where Grantaire is like "I'd do anything for you. Black your boots"?? Dying by each other's side holding hands????? Plus the whole section where Victor Hugo was like "ahh yes Enjolras, the man who does not care for women at all. Seriously, women do not matter to him at all. He had never noticed one in his life". Later on he tried to get us with the "Enjolras's Mistress" bit only to reveal his mistress is, in fact, the country of France. I was reading the book like woahh Grantaire clearly is in love with Enj good for him before realizing that it was a book published in the 1860s, but like, I can't be the only one who saw it, right??
Very unfortunate that the tangents didn't make the abridged version- I mean, you really need to know the entire history of the Parisian sewers to fully get the following scenes, right (I mean, not really, but I still liked it). The only tangent I didn't really enjoy was the one about the convent, it just felt soo boring to me?? I really liked the Waterloo one, though.
I have no idea why the elephant was included. I guess it was a fun, whimiscal way of symbolically showing the passing of time/changing of the ages in France while also serving a narrative purpose (showing the life of children on the street/the gamin chapters). I think it's great how Les Mis actually shows not just the revolution but the reasons for revolting via Fantine and Gavroche and Eponine and other people screwed over by the system.
I have Many Other Les Mis Thoughts but it's late and I should probably sleep now. Thanks for reading my rambles!! <33
(January 2, 2024 - 10:42 pm)
I got maybe a quarter into the Silm before restarting because I had zoned out too much and didn't know what was happening lol so now I'm a few chapters in—I think the Eldar and the dwarves are about to be born?
I FINISHED IT JUST NOW!! I've been staying up late to read 80 pages a day over break and my sleep schedule is horrible but I'm done! I've been kind of skimming it a bit though not as close reading as I would've liked, although it helps that I already knew the story. Yesss Gavroche is amazing :D "You ought to sell all your hairs at a hundred francs apiece. That would make you five hundred francs."
I can totally see Enj and Grantaire together! Especially because of how they died... (I definitely didn't have to google who Grantaire was uhh but the first question that came up was "are Grantaire and Enjolras in love" so your theory is validated) ahh I love gay canon stuff that was totally unintentional XD
the sheer number of synonyms for 'sewer' in those twenty pages though— ...I really enjoyed the sewer tangent, but I didn't love the Waterloo one. there was one time Hugo argued that sewers trumped love and that made me laugh "there is no love which persists; the cloaca extinguishes it... Thisbe stops her nose at sight of Pyramus, and says: 'Peugh!'"
ofc, thanks for rambling!! I don't know any serious Tolkien fans irl, although some of my friends are huge Les Mis nerds :D
(January 4, 2024 - 3:00 am)
Yeah the Silm is kind of hard to get into, it's suuuper dense, especially at the beginning. But one of my favorite lore facts is that Melkor/Morgoth's evil origin story was him disrupting Eru's music at the beginning of the world- I saw one thing that compared it to someone playing electric guitar at a classical music concert lol. Also ever notice that Morgoth's name sounds just like 'more-goth' and his color scheme is all black and gloomy... kind of like a goth....
THAT'S INCREDIBLE that you managed to read Les Mis that fast. I really need to get through the last a hundred pages or so but where hath all my time gone?? Yesss the sewer tangent is great and I love it soo much. Another underrated character that I think changes a lot from the book to the movie is Eponine. I loveee her sm!! I just feel like she has a lot more depth in the book, and she has some of the best, saddest lines. When the old man says 'you must be an angel for watering my flowers' and she says 'actually I'm the devil but it's all the same to me'!! I like how in the book it gives her more of a life outside of Marius, while the musical version of her basically only shows up when he does (except for On My Own, which is about him). And while I don't dislike that version of her, the book version I enjoy more. The little details of her checking herself in the mirror and wanting to read books and be girly and have things but she's stuck in this horrible family, crime, poverty etc, that she basically thinks her life is over by the time she's sixteen. So then she latches on to Marius as a purpose in life and even dies for him, not because she truly, really loves but because she has nothing else to live for.... idk it just gets me every time.
I also don't know any serious Tolkien fans irl! As you go further on in the Silm I'd be really interested in what your thoughts are about what happens (or if you're confused by anything since it is a very confusing book, then I'd be happy to help too!) <3
(January 4, 2024 - 10:33 pm)
welp school just started so I haven't gotten any farther... okay I'll accept that Morgoth is goth lol :)
ooh Eponine was cool—I didn't personally relate to her in any way so she was kind of detached and definitely not my favorite character, but she was definitely interesting. She does have a really deep story tho!!
my friend's started sending me a bunch of Les Mis memes XD I don't think I can share them on the CB but they're very funny
I'm fairly sure I got Thingol and Telperion confused for a few chapters earlier haha (one's a tree?? and one's the weilder of the condensed power of the tree [the Silmarils]??) but other than that I'm not too lost yet I hope :)
(January 5, 2024 - 4:43 pm)
Yeah, Thingol is an elf, one of the OGs who never made it West and stayed in Middle Earth, the one who lives in Doriath. The wielder of the Silmarils would be Feanor, who made them. And Telperion is uhhh yeah a tree. But it's a cool tree! I swear I had to keep a spreadsheet to keep track of all these names the first time around...
(January 5, 2024 - 10:57 pm)
shoot maybe I also confused Feanor and Thingol? I can't honestly remember anymore lol
and whoa a spreadsheet is actually pretty smart! How long did it end up being?
who's your favorite character/s from the LotR universe?
(January 7, 2024 - 1:52 am)
I forget how long the spreadsheet was, but there was a lot of info on there. Many, many names and such. If you ever get confused, just remember FeaNOr, because throughout the book you'll be yelling NO at him whenever he does anything lol (also if it helps differentiate them Feanor has dark hair and a bunch of sons and Thingol has silver hair and one daughter)
Kind of a generic answer, but I really like Eowyn. I just thought she was so cool when I was younger and I sure do now as well. I know some people don't like the ending she got but I thought it was in character. I watched the movies before reading the books and for a while my favorite character was Legolas but I kind of grew out of that (still like him tho! just not my all time fave anymore). And, of course, the hobbits as well, especially Merry and Sam. I also really like Elrond, I feel like he's such a kind and fleshed out figure throughout the books. If I had to go with an all time Tolkien fave it would probably be Maglor or Maedhros (always flip-flopping between the two) simply because I really got attatched to them a few years ago when I first read the Silm and still feel pretty strongly about them. What can I say, I like a good tragedy.
How about you? There's sooo many characters to choose from and almost all of them are great picks (except for like... Denethor or something like that). Even Tolkien's evil characters are very compelling (like Sauron, who gets a much more fleshed out backstory in the Silm). Not Denethor tho. Really hate that guy.
(January 7, 2024 - 10:32 pm)
Eowyn was definitely cool! I think it's amazing how much worldbuilding gets put into relatively minor characters, and people like Eowyn and Arwen are great examples of this. Arwen especially has a crazily flushed-out backstory. And yessss, Legolas is one of my favorite characters from the movie! Pippin and Merry are also hilarious though XD they have so many scenes of them just being cluelessly food-motivated :D
I kind of want to say Denethor now, just for that... but no, I agree he's such an infuriating character! I guess I like all the classic characters—Legolas + Gimli and Pippin and Tom Bombadil and Treebeard and Radagast the Brown.
I hate to admit that when I was just starting the books I got Saruman and Sauron confused... they were both evil and literally all the names are so similar lol.
what are some of your favorite books that maybe aren't so... classic and long? (I only really know you like Les Mis and LoTR...)
(January 11, 2024 - 2:09 am)
See, that's the strange thing- I usually don't read old books in the Tolkien or Les Mis style, but those are the exceptions. I'm reading the Odyssey now which is good but I don't like it quite as much. I really like Percy Jackson, Six of Crows, and the Hunger Games series. As for stand alone books, I've read a lottt more of them which I can't really remember at this moment lol. I have a book with all of the books I've read in it, but it's at home. I'll see if I find anything else on there when I get home later :)
What about you? What other books do you like? (also hope you're having a good day! <3)
(January 11, 2024 - 3:16 pm)
I read the Odyssey in English class last semester. The Emily Wilson translation—I thought the story was pretty good but the translation bothered me. It was way too... modern? I get that it's easier to teach to a class of kids who manage to mispronounce even simple words, but it was still weird when the translation talked about Penelope "cheering up" or "fumigating the house." that was kind of a strange tangent lol
I love SoC! (I'm of the unpopular opinion that Six of Crows is better than Crooked Kingdom—thoughts?) It's been years since I've read Percy Jackson, but I liked those too I think. And I liked the first Hunger Games but by the time I got to the third I didn't really like them.
I read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy. You've probably heard me reccommending To Say Nothing of the Dog and the Rook before, but I'm also a huge Harry Potter, Septimus Heap, and Morrigan Crow fan. For stand-alones, some favorites are The Alice Network, Anxious People, and the House on the Cerulean Sea.
I'm currently reading Exhalation by Ted Chiang. It's a collection of short stories and usually I find those hard to get into but these are seriously amazingly written and very reality-questioning-esque and generally super cool ideas. If you like sci-fi, I'd totally recommend it!
(January 16, 2024 - 7:59 pm)
Yeah, the translation of the Odyssey is one from the 70s I think, and I like it. It seems a little old-fashioned, but that's to be expected. I agree that reading modern phrases can kind of take you out of the reading in translations, but it seems like kind of an inescapable phenomenon for any translator of an ancient work.
I really need to do a SoC reread, but from what I remember I also think I liked Six of Crows better. Idk it's just so iconic?? The big advantage that Crooked Kingdom has is it's able to have more happen because it's a sequel and doesn't need all the set-up and such that happens in book one. Yeah, the Hunger Games became way more gritty and political in the third book, which has actually kind of grown on my over time. I feel like those books get way to much hate for being 'cringey YA dystopian' when really it's a great book series that was so popular that a bunch of other authors tried and failed to recreate it's sucess, thus creating the aforementioned YA dystopian genre. Some of them I still think about sometimes and regret reading.... like Divergent.....
I remember starting the Septimus Heap books when I was younger! I didn't really get into them but I recall thinking that the covers were cool. I used to be suuuuper into fantasy and sci-fi- I still kind of am, but not nearly as much as my 11-15 years old era (which was... certainly a time). The only other one of those books/series that I've read is Harry Potter (you've probably seen me ramble on at some point about my dislike for it lol). I should check out the other ones that you mentioned, they all look cool!
That book sounds so interesting! I just read a very good speculative fiction, fantasy/sci-fi esque short story collection called Lesser Known Monsters of the 21st Century by Kim Fu, and it was really good!
Hmm, what kinds of movies and shows are you liking right now? Also- thoughts on the Les Mis movie, if you've seen it?
(January 16, 2024 - 10:53 pm)
not Divergent :/ I read the first one maybe a year ago because it seemed like a classic YA but to be honest it was kind of a waste of a few hours... I almost watched Divergent 3 with my friend once (she promised me that there was a scene with orange goo and that almost convinced me...) I'm also a firm believer that no YA romance is good romance. Actually, I'd say that about basically any romance lol but especially YA. What's your opinion on that?
What specifically don't you like about HP? I think the main reason I love it so much is that I read it at a very young age and my brother and I would quiz each other with obscure trivia. It was fun because we both knew it—it's still fun because so many other people also do. I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite series without that aspect: it's not bad, but not outstanding either. (also Harry and Ron and basically the entirety of Gryffindor are complete blockheads haha)
your book also sounds cool! I'll add it to my wayyyy too long list...
I barely watch any movies. My family in general is pretty anti-TV and my screentime is strict and stuff so I don't get a lot of them. I have a soft spot for The Owl House though, it's so sweet lol. I generally prefer animated movies, I think. The Minions or (only the first) How To Train Your Dragon are two of my favorites :) I've most recently watched the first Iron Man (first Marvel movie!) and the Imitation Game (really interesting but also pretty sad). What about you?
I've never seen the Les Mis movie/musical/whatever. Should I? I think I know a few songs, although the only one I remember off the top of my head is Castle on a Cloud.
(January 19, 2024 - 3:38 am)