Huh.

So I definitely see where you're coming from. There's really no need to be overly graphic and gory. There's really no benefit for anyone, especially considering there are some who really dislike violence and would rather not have to be inundated with that kind of stuff. It's kinda frustrating when a place you love seems overflowing with it.

At the same, I really enjoy Ski-Lodges and mysteries and exploring the inner workings of the human psyche. Ski-Lodges are a form of catharsis and rationalising the world in an arguably non-harmful way. No-one is actually being hurt, and everyone gives their consent to be written in such a way. Furthermore, like the whole zoodle bonanza, if people don't like it, they don't have to interact with Zoodle threads. As long as the content is being contained to its respective thread, nobody is being forced to consume any content.

Respectfully, the world will not always be nice or willing to listen to the good arguments you make. And being one doesn't mean someone is necessarily going to be the other. I hope that the CB can be a place that you feel safe, heard and afforded the respect you deserve; I hope you will not leave because of Ski Lodges. However I also hope that our content can be respected as well, even if it isn't to your taste, GLT. 

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I agree with the Admins and Tenebrous.  If a ski lodge didn't feature death, it would fail to be a ski lodge.  we enjoy murder mysteries not because of their darkness or violence, but because of their suspense, intrigue and the enjoyment gained from being our own sleuths.  Books like Harry Potter or Percy Jackson have the same level of violence, if not more.  The CB is a diverse community so different people are going to enjoy different things, and that's wonderful!  However, that doesn't mean we should get rid of something that is a significant part of the CB just because one person doesn't like it.

@GLT, I was actually thinking just the same thing! I really don't like ski lodges, for the following reasons:

1. I think some of them are really, really gory. I know they'd be worse if we didn't have the Admins, who do edit out some of the violence (thank you, admins!) but they're just so graphic. By graphic, I mean anything more descriptive than, say, "He fell to the floor, bleeding from the wound." I believe it's unhealthy to read graphic descriptions of death and suffering. Death and suffering happen, of course. And they are often very ugly. But I believe that's precisely why it makes no sense to dwell on the details of a death. It doesn't make you feel good, it doesn't make death go away, it doesn't accomplish anything positive. In fact, I believe it very often has negative effects. I think that eventually, it just doesn't matter to one anymore that someone is suffering, and one will be less likely to try to prevent suffering. I'm not saying that any CBer would turn this way just from reading ski lodges, but it is something to consider. And, of course, because we're built to be empathetic and social human beings, it makes us feel bad to read about a person suffering. At least, it should.

2. Even if the ski lodge is not gory in the least, it's still about death. Why should we want to watch ourselves die? (I know I signed up for ski lodges, several times, but that was before I had really given this any thought.) Even the funniest, lightest ski lodge is still going to depict that. It's not even like we die for a purpose - to save someone else or to defy a villain, for instance. We end up dying just because some deranged character is prowling around killing us. It has nothing to do with real life, and nothing to do with morals, ethics, and kindness. It doesn't seem very fun to me, and I for one don't want to watch myself falling victim and losing my life to no purpose. I don't really know why anyone would want to. And, why would we want to write stories in which our fellow CBers, who are basically our best friends for a lot of us, are killed? In my ski lodge, for instance, I decided no one would die after Sterling was murdered, and then I thought maybe Sterling shouldn't have been murdered either, and I brought Sterling back to life.

I realize that just because I'm uncomfortable with this, it doesn't mean other people can't read ski lodges. As Tenebrous said, it's like books in a library. What I'm concerned about is that a ski lodge may adversely affect someone who does not yet have the criteria to choose reading material carefully. If the CB were for adults, it would be fine. But it's for kids and teens. A kid of, say, ten might start reading a ski lodge and be absolutely horrified by it, without having the maturity and experience to mentally catalogue it as something not worth reading. As writers, we all have the responsibility to use our talents for good as far as we possibly can. We have no responsibility to only write twee, happy, cottagecore things. But we do have to be careful about what we share with the rest of the world, and how we share it. Although it may be unintentional, it isn't right to make an unsuspecting CBer feel revolted and horrified, or to consistenly make our readers focus on death and despair, or convey the message that it's okay to die for no reason. For the same reason, I think that even in children's sections of libraries, there should be nothing dark or gory. Kids just aren't equipped to deal with this kind of stuff, and if they are exposed to it, they can become hardened to it. Just in practical terms, one ends up with a generation of people who will use violence to get what they want. Some studies say that this is true (my mom is very concerned about this and has done some online research, which is how I know). I don't want to make anyone feel bad by saying this, by the way. So many of you are amazing, talented, skilled writers, and I know you'd never mean this to happen. It's just worrying to think about the effects that dark writing can have, and I do think that we have something of an obligation to keep it in mind.

@Tenebrous, you've just made me sooo glad I'm homeschooled!

@Reuby, I'm fine with blood! I mean, it's nothing but water with some red blood cells in it... I just don't like descriptions of gore and people being actively cruel to each other. Cruelty in a book, unless it's definitively pointed out as wrong, is never ever acceptable.

Anyway, to sum up, look at it this way: can you think of one good reason to read something violent, compared to the multitude of reasons there are to read something really meaningful?

Pointsettia, we admins try to make sure that all the writing on the CB is appropriate for our younger readers, and the Ski Lodges are no exception. We trust CBers to watch out for each other, and ski lodges are a specific place for writers to have fun with the horror/mystery genre. --admin

Hi GLT! As the author of one of the aforementioned ski lodges, I see where you're coming from, but at the same time it's important to consider other people's feelings! Me (and so many others) put a lot of effort into writing lodges, and they wouldn't exactly be the unique CB phenomenon that they are without the murder and mystery part. Even though some may be on the darker side, such as mine, they are never written for the purpose of making you feel uncomfortable or overly scared. The main reason is just for fun! If it's not something that you enjoy then that's perfectly okay, but you shouldn't try and take something away that brings people joy simply because it's not your style. Thanks!! Have a good day <333

So, many people have already posted on this thread, and while I would like to add my two cents, I don’t want you to feel like you’re being attacked, GLT. I like how Periwinkle put it: we’re all friends here, and sometimes friends disagree.

That being said, I would like to share my perspective as a ski lodge writer. I’ve been writing my ski lodge for several months now, and I feel like I’ve grown so much as a writer. Posting my writing regularly for an audience has definitely kept me motivated, and the comments and feedback I receive have made me more confident about my writing. Whenever I’m struggling, feeling bad about myself or my writing, or just need to escape from the real world, I work on my ski lodge. So, writing a ski lodge has been invaluable to my growth as a writer, and to my ability to cope.

But I’m not only a ski lodge writer — I’m also an avid reader of ski lodges. And ski lodges are so much more than violence, gore, and death. Poinsettia’s ski lodge, for instance, hardly features death! And it’s a heartwarming story of magic, time travel, good vs. evil, and family, with excellent writing and plenty of twists and secrets. Peri’s, too, is wonderful, and while the deaths are an important part of it, the violence isn't the main part of it, and there’s so much to enjoy besides them — her ski lodge is an incredible feat of world building, mystery, suspense, and amazing characters with complex personalities and backstories. And there are so many more wacky and wonderful ski lodges with so much more to enjoy besides "violence" and deaths; I’m just naming a few. You by no means have to read ski lodges or enjoy them, but just know that they are wonderful stories beyond the deaths, and I think if you did read one of the ones I mentioned, you’d be pleasantly surprised (I highly recommend Poinsettia’s, especially if you don’t like the death/violence aspect).

But it’s okay if you don’t like ski lodges. Like Tenebrous said: the CB is like a library; if a book makes you uncomfortable, just put it back on the shelf and try something else. And there are many other things on the CB besides ski lodges! I really wouldn’t want you to leave just because of ski lodges; you’re such an important member of this community. :)

So, I guess what I’m saying is, you don’t have to like ski lodges. You don’t have to read them. But…you do have to respect them. Respect the wonderful stories they are, respect their history, respect them as a unique CB tradition. Respect the ski lodge writers, and the effort and dedication that goes into writing a ski lodge. Respect all the people who enjoy reading ski lodges. You don’t have to read them, but you have to respect them. 

Like I said before, I really hope you don’t feel attacked, because, and I’m sure I speak for everyone when I say this, that was not my intention. <333

i think it's okay not to like ski lodges but you aren't forced to read them. a lot of people do enjoy them so i don’t think we should stop doing them just because some people don't like seeing the words "ski lodge" on the puddings place page. if you don't like them you can just ignore them

I'm glad you brought this up, GLT! I've felt for a while that the whole idea of ski lodges is something that might need a bit more discussion.

First of all, I think it's important to consider that, as Poinsettia said, the CB is for older kids and teens, but it's also for younger children; however light-heartedly the ski lodge is written, ther whole idea is one that very young children can't deal with too well. I mean, the whole horror/mystery genre isn't really meant for younger children (or shouldn't be, anyway). So it just seems to me that ski lodges are a bit advanced for the children who might read them and be shocked by the ideas expressed in them, especially as sometimes they do tend more towards somewhat gory detail.

Futhermore, I understand that they provide a way for CBers to have the horror/mystery element on the CB, but I don't think it meshes too well with the feeling of the CB - that everything is totally appropriate for kids of all ages and there isn't anything that anyone could feel uncomfortable about. You do keep the ski lodges on a more manageable level, admins, but since a few CBers are rather uncomfortable with the idea of ski lodges, and new CBers won't necessarily know what ski lodges are and start reading them, I do think we need to reach some sort of an agreement that we'll all feel happy with. I know that a lot of you love writing ski lodges, but since you say that the gore and deaths aren't the most important elements in them, I would appreciate it if we could try chanelling that idea into slightly more appropriate stories. For example, we could have ski lodges where a miscellaneous person is killed, and the CBers have to find out who, from a number of suspects, killed him. Or anything else, but at least not go so deeply into the idea that we're being killed.

Anyway, I hope no one's feelings got hurt by this, as I truly don't mean these to be personal remarks, and I hope you consider alternatives that would keep the aspect of murder mysteries in ski lodges while being something that more CBers are happy about :)

Admins try to avoid posting any "gory detail" anywhere on Chatterbox.

Admin

A lot of people have already said a lot of what I'm about to say, but as a Ski Lodge host I think I should make it clear where I stand.

First of all, like Tenebrous said, if you don't like something, don't read it. If you're reading something and it makes you uncomfortable, you can stop reading it. Nobody is making you read anything you don't want to. It is a general understanding on CB that most ski lodges will contain minimal amounts of violence--of course, some don't, but most do. If you aren't comfortable with minimal amounts of violence you don't have to read about it. Ski Lodges typically stay confined to the threads they are posted on, and while they might be mentioned every now and then in other places, people usually don't talk about any of the major plot points--such as the deaths--outside of the Lodge to avoid spoilers for those who haven't read them yet. It is highly unlikely that you will have to read about any of the violence in the Lodge unless you read the Lodge itself.

Second of all, CBers sign up for Ski Lodges of their own free will. It is understood that their characters will be either be murdered or be the murderer unless stated otherwise, and they are OK with their characters being used this way. If at any point the CBer wants to leave the Ski Lodge for whatever reason, they can collaborate with the host to have their character withdrawn in a way that works for both the story plot and the CBer (for example, the CBer's character could accidentally break their ankle and have to go home prematurely, effectively removing the character from the Lodge without having the character disappear with no explanation).

Third of all, Ski Lodges are a beloved CB tradition! They are a way for writers to practice writing, and they are a unique form of entertainment because they feature characters that are made by CBers.  A lot of people like to "write" themselves into their favorite books, and Ski Lodges are a lot like that only people's characters are actually part of the story.

So, GLT - Nobody is forcing you or anybody else to read or participate in a Ski Lodge. I understand why they could be "an attack on [your] emotional safety," but I don't understand how they could do that unless you read them, which nobody is making you do. I'd also like to thank you for making this thread, because I think Ski Lodges needed this kind of discussion to help us understand each other and our opinions on them better.