Diverse Character Help
Chatterbox: Inkwell
Diverse Character Help
Hey everyone! Before I start this post I'd like to apologize in advance if anything sounds strange or is spelled wrong; my autocorrect is acting up today but I will edit as best I can!
Anyway, I created this thread because I'm writing some characters who have important traits that I don't have and I was hoping I could get some help from people who are like them. I figure plenty of people have this issue sometimes and thought it'd be good to have a thread where you can ask questions about writing diverse characters.
Right now, I'm trying to write an AroAce character as a person who isn't AroAce. She's the main character of the story, and although there's much more to her than her being AroAce, it's still really important to the story that she is.
If you're aro, ace, or both I'd appreciate if you'd answer any or all of these questions:
- Do you enjoy love songs and romance in stories despite being unable to relate to them? If not, do you think it's believable for another aro and/or ace person to?
- How did you realize you were aro and/or ace? Do you think it'd be believable for a character to not realize they were even as a teenager who has dated before? Do you think it'd be believable for an AroAce character to date someone before discovering their identity?
- Have you ever convinced yourself you had a crush and/or lied to others about having a crush to feel normal?
- What are some stereotypes to avoid? What are things you'd like to see in an AroAce character?
Feel free to ask for help here with your own diverse characters!
(August 4, 2024 - 5:29 pm)
Ayyyy! This is cool! So I'm Ace and possibly Aro??? Definitely on the AroAce spectrum, so I'll try to give you my perspective on these questions.
- I think it's definitely possible to enjoy stories/songs that are romantic, even if you don't feel that way (similar to how gays can enjoy a straight romance story, or the other way around; it's obviously a little different, but kind of shows the appreciation for different tastes in a similar way). I also think you can appreciate romantic stuff, even if you can't relate. At the same time, constantly seeing ever story you read be touched and "interrupted" by romantic subplots/hijinks can be annoying, no matter how you identify. If it seems like every song on the radio is a love song a d you just don't get it, that might be frustrating, too.
- I have had relationships before and still question if I'm Aro or not, so definitely possible to date people and still not be sure if you're aromantic. Again, I think plenty of people who end up being gay/lesbian date straightly at first since it's the "default" and just don't feel it fully before they realise why. Some people will never have a doubt that they are gay/lesbian or aro/ace, though. You can also have connections and care about people, maybe just not in the way that people expect / not in a strictly romantic way. It can also be really confusing, like you think you like them, but maybe not romantically, but maybe also yes romantically??? Also have you ever had a person who you didn't have a crush on, but then they hug you or hold your hand or do something that would normally be interpreted as kinda romantic and your stomach flutters and then you are just so extremely confused because you don't see them any differently? That's happened to me before.
- Absolutely. It can feel like there's something wrong with you for not wanting something so fundamental that everyone else wants. Up till pretty late as a teenager I just had absolutely no interest in crushes, even though I knew I wanted to be around certain people a lot more than others. Later on I kinda convinced myself I just didn't know what a crush felt like, and that's why I thought I never had one. I still just am not sure.
- I think maybe acting like you just hate people in general? Or that you can't stand the sight of anything romantic? Or being super oblivious, like they just don't know what romance is? But then again, there are so many different people in the world, and I'm sure some aro/ace people (and just people in general) are like that, so idk. I'd think just not to make them like that unless you have a reason / something in their backstory that would justify feeling / acting like that.
(August 5, 2024 - 12:10 pm)
I thought of another stereotype/misconception! Some people don't realise that you can be Ace but not Aro or Aro but not Ace; additionally, like Ellesmere said, there is a spectrum of AroAce-ness, and you can be a certain type of Aro or Ace, and it can even fluctuate from time to time in the same person!
(August 5, 2024 - 8:55 pm)
so, I personally am not aromantic. but I am ace (a more specific subset, but I usually just use the term ace), so I thought I would answer one or two of these questions ^w^
- personally, I'm okay with love songs, but I don't really seek them out, per se; it's just that if they happen to have a romantic meaning to them, I'm not bothered by it. it's a similar thing with books: I don't seek out romantic-focused books, but if they happen to have a love side trope, I'm ok with it.
- I didn't really "realize" I was ace--it was more of a, "wow, I really don't have an interest in this like other people do. guess that's just me". and then only recently I was like, "oh. there's a label for that. ok :)". for an aroace character, I'm not sure, but for me, I feel an attraction to people romantically, but I'm quickly deterred because I know if it was reciprocated, they would want deeper intimacy, and that really shuts me down.
- once, I did; a friend of mine was really pushing me to say if I had a crush on someone, so I told her about a boy that I'm really platonically/mildly romantically attracted to, just to make her shut it. but otherwise, I tell the truth: I'm really deterred by the idea of having anything deeper than a mild romantic relationship.
- a stereotype to avoid would be the idea that ace people are completely deterred by intimate relations. look it up and you'll find that there are several subsets (including my own)
hope this was helpful! I know I'm not aroace like you were looking for, but maybe this will give you a few ideas :3
my CAPTCHA says zitch... that sounds like a good name...
(August 5, 2024 - 1:58 pm)
I agree with the second half of your second point; although I'm not sure I'm aro, I'm definitely ace, and knowing that most people are not ace kind of makes me hesitate when I am put in a potentially romantic situation. I'm afraid they're going to want more than I'm able to give, and be interested in going farther than what I'm know I'm comfortable with. Not that there's anything wrong with what they want, it's just something I can't provide, so not getting involved will keep me from getting to that point and letting them down. Also some people think they can change the fact that you're ace and take it as a challenge if you tell them straight-up, which is just horrible to experience.
(August 5, 2024 - 8:52 pm)
I'm going to add to this real quick! I figured out I am actually on the aromantic spectrum--I'm cupioromantic, which means I want a romantic relationship/would be ok with one, but I don't feel attraction to people, so I would never get to that point. so your character doesn't have to absolutely hate the idea of a romantic relationship--they just might not feel romantic attraction to anyone.
(October 7, 2024 - 3:36 pm)
(August 5, 2024 - 1:59 pm)
(August 5, 2024 - 2:27 pm)
thanks for asking! a major thing to realize is that aro (and ace but i’m focusing on aro here - also a character doesn’t have to be both, they can be aro but not ace or other way) people can have any relationship to romance, they just don’t feel it and/or feel it differently (like greyromantic or demiromantic or frayromantic). So you can have an aro character who loves romance novels and Valentine’s day but hates the idea of actually being in a romantic relationship, or who doesn’t care about those things but rarely has romantic attraction. Also there are things like qprs, which are basically relationships that aren’t romantic but aren’t platonic. So someone could be in a dedicated qpr and have no interest in romance. also of course there are people who hate all of it.
For the questions:
I almost always hate love songs unless they’re really really good musically (i can handle The Beatles XD) or classical (which would also probably mean they’re in another language, which helps). Or if they’re sad. I find the lyrics a bit… oof though, even if i do like them. That being said, i am completely obsessed with Giselle and Albrecht right now (Marianela Nuñez and Vadim Muntagirov, ROH 2016). Because they’re just fun. It’s like they’re just playing games the whole time and it works so well and also Marianela Nuñez and Vadim Muntagirov and all the amazing dancers (a lot of current principals hadn’t been promoted yet - Anna Rose O’Sullivan is in the ensemble! Yasmine Naghdi and Marcelino Sambe and Fransesca Hayward are in smaller solo parts! That’s certainly the best pas de six cast you can get - I mean the ones I mentioned but also Luca Acri, Alexander Campbell, and Yuhui Choe! Yeah it’s great). I actually do get obsessed with this sort of thing sometimes, but not really in a romantic way, i just really like the characters. But a lot of things also focus really hard on the romantic bit, or it’s mushy or there’s a lot of focus on like commitment and marriage and then it’s less fun. also there are bits of love songs that are relatable regardless, depending on the song. especially like sad ones. XD
Ummm really i’ve always hated romance so it probably wasn’t very hard for me to be like “ey that’s me” when i read about the label XD as for my queer journey in general: basically i learned about it on the CB and the only thing i had heard about queerness before was someone making a gay joke that i didn’t get XD and yeah, i’ve definitely heard of people dating before they realize they’re aro, and some might after if they're like greyromantic or such. when they aren't, i usually hear it’s not fun, even if they like the person. That being said I adore ballet romance (at least because it's ballet). Especially when they both die at the end. I’m joking but i’m also not.
I don’t think so about the crush thing, but i’ve heard of it. I’m really not good at being normal, and i never seem normal anyway so XD
For stereotypes and such… um i guess i’d like to see more diversity in relationship to romance - having multiple aro characters would be cool! Also ace characters who aren’t aro and aro characters who aren’t ace. And also characters who are not majority in other ways, like not white or queer in other ways or disabled (i could help you with those if you want, but ofc that would require a ton more research). I feel like often it’s either “we can still love and be romantic though” or ignoring that?? And like more specific things - maybe they’re more or less okay with flirting but anything beyond that feels invasive or something.
I’d also be careful, since you said you’re not aroace, to write too much into what it’s like? Like not making a large part of it something deeply intrinsic to being aroace. Like a plot about coming to terms with it would probably require a lot of input from people who actually are aroace, and a plot about arophobia would need even more. (If you’re queer in other ways i’d be somewhat less concerned about the first, since it’s similar, though, but i still don't know if i'd make it too big of a thing.) Also of course it’s totally fine to be cishet! It’s just that since it’s not lived experience it’s much easier to get wrong or write something hurtful. and also if you’re going to publish it someday (especially traditionally) it might take up a space that an aroace person could get. I really don’t want to make it sound like it’s bad to be cishet, or that you’re the villain, or anything. (though also, cishet people come to terms with this once and otherwise don't really get the same societal messaging, while queer people are painted as villains and told that it’s bad to be themselves like constantly… like just by wanting to use the right name we're like unreasonable, and if we complain we're like making too big a deal of it and "woke" and all that, and all that is probably worth keeping in mind as well. Like just not having to come out is a big enough thing that it’s worth mentioning, even if it goes well. But it’s not a bad thing on your part either, you certainly don’t have control of societal things either)
let me know if you have questions!
(August 6, 2024 - 10:19 am)
In my writing, I have some characters who are neurodivergent (especially autistic ones, as for some time I was wondering if I was autistic), and since I'm not neurodivergent I'd like advice on how to write about neurodivergent characters properly (I understand that there is more to people than being neurodivergent, but I'd like to be able to make it believable). I've read some books with neurodivergent main characters (some with neurodivergent authors too) and am taking some ideas from them, but I'd also like advice from other people about it, if that'd be possible? Thanks!
(August 6, 2024 - 8:30 pm)
do you have any specific questions to start? also what are the characters you're writing like? i'm autistic (and ADHD, and like mentally ill XD), though i also have some other things that probably effect it. you might get best answers for autism and ADHD. don't worry if any of them are offensive, i'll assume you don't know why and aren't trying to be XD also i'm fairly different from most of the people you see online, so keep that in mind. i will try to keep as many perspectives in mind as i can though. also i am nothing like this irl btw, like i can't talk like this at all, or type often, and then when i do that's kind of a hassle XD probably partially because i'm always interested in what i'm writing, but it's so vastly different that can't be it. i can't talk this well even with ballet things irl, maybe on rare rare occaisions but very rare. also i can't always type, sometimes my hands don't work or my mind doesn't. anyway.
(August 7, 2024 - 1:04 pm)
The characters in question are all around 12 years old. Both are fairly self-conscious, one a little more than the other, and introverted. One of them likes statistics, and the other doesn’t have many interests that she actually does as she goes to boarding school. The one who goes to boarding school has a brother, who she misses but not painfully (she misses her parents about the samej, and the other is an only child, who also happens to be away from her parents (summer camp) and misses them but tries not to think about it. Both of them worry sometimes.
And, specific questions:
1. Do you prefer having conversations with total strangers or having conversations with people you know? (Like do you find it easier to talk to people who you may never see again and so you don’t have to think about how they’ll judge you because it won’t matter?)
2. Do you always feel your senses (take in input from them) the same amount all the time, or are you more sensitive some times than others?
This is all I can think of now, but if I have any more, I could send you them, or not if you wouldn’t like to.
(August 7, 2024 - 9:27 pm)
1. (Also neurodivergent and struggling with mental illness) Haha, talking is never easy. Sometimes it is easier to say random things to people who I don't know, but usually that's only if they're in a position in which they are... Vulnerable? That makes it sounds really bad, but like, I can't talk to people regularly unless they are super anxious or younger than me or need help, if that makes sense? "Normal people" in a "normal" state of mind are just too much. It feels like they're judging and I don't like that.
2. Nooo, a lot of times things seem much louder and brighter than they are, but sometimes it's to a lesser extent. I also have a neurodivergent friend who has hearing issues normally but have random bursts of really sensitive hearing sometimes.
(August 8, 2024 - 8:50 pm)
Thank you for answering these questions!
(August 9, 2024 - 4:22 pm)
yeah, if you have more questions definitely let me know. if you want more in depth feedback - what are their specific autistic traits? also the rest of the post. are they in different books? (they sound somewhat similar which could definitely be an issue if they are in the same book, since people tend to stereotype. i wrote some of this thinking they were in the same book)
assuming statistics is their special interest, is it specific statistics or just statistics in general? if it's the latter, it might be best to make it more about the numbers or any other aspect of statistics and they care less about anything related to that, just because special interests are usually narrower (example being they care about a statistic about whales but don't care about the food whales eat or pictures of whales, unless that's in a statistic). also since numbers/math is fairly stereotypical, if they're in the same book it might be nice if your other character's special interest (if you give them one) was something less so. i definitely don't think just having a character who likes math is a big deal, it could be fun if they love statistics but aren't great at actual math though. i'm not certain if i'm understanding what you mean by "statistics" either.
it is technically possible to have autism without any strict special interests, i think in most cases (especially since you're not autistic) it'd make more sense to have a special interest, also because then the other aspects would have to be extra clear and well written? if you want some rambles about special interests i can write some. i'd say in general they're pretty important - like they're kind of who i am in a way deeper than even any sort of identity thing. which is a bad explanation. also, often other interests (that aren't special interests) are more specific and and in depth - like i really like roses (outside of the Rose Adagio! XD) and whenever i see them outside a building or stuff i have to basically be dragged away from looking at them XD
part of worrying can be like uncertainty, if you're not sure what's going to happen. it can also just be worrying
As for your questions:
1: I find it easier to talk to people i know because then they tend to know what i mean more. like my mom can often figure out what i'm trying to say just from a single sound even if it's not very descriptive, especially depending on context. if they don't know me they're probably not going to put in the effort or know what i'm trying to say by like a single syllable. but this is probably as much personality affected. i'd say probably there might often be a preference for known people though, just because often known things are less overwhelming. also Jaybell's answer might be better here, since i'm assuming they're fairly independent if they're going to boarding school and sleep over summer camp without their parents, and probably fairly good at interacting. i don't often talk to people though, especially not people i don't know
2: i'm definitely more sensitive with some senses than others. well kind of. like any strong smells (and also tend to notice them even if others don't think they're strong) are usually worse than bright lighting, but bright lights in a dark place (like tv in a dark room) is really bad. and if there's a lot of movement that can be really overwhelming visually. (i'm also really bad at watching movies and tv shows because of this - it can be really overwhelming and also things don't always go how you expect so i usually just watch the same few episodes over and over. and of course i'm watching ballet constantly, like basically the whole time i'm awake, i'm not even exaggerating, and it's usually like one act or less of a ballet, so yeahhhh) any sort of loud, sudden, or prolonged sound can be really bad, except for some reason there's one kind of blender i can actually use for some reason. and i can definitely be more sensitive at some times than others. also there's a lotttt of clothes i can't wear because they're uncomfortable, and sometimes clothes that are okay sometimes aren't always okay. this sort of stuff is different for everyone. also some people can deal with the discomfort (though i think this is usually painful; this is part of masking btw i think), others run out of the room and if they have to stay they have a violent meltdown (which is also very painful), there's probably other ways.
(August 9, 2024 - 5:40 pm)
Ooh, that's a really good point! Clothes are a huge one for me too! Whether it's being really uncomfortable that my arms/legs/back are exposed, or having issues with the neckline or waistbands of clothes, or texture or way things cling/touch the body, I've always been super picky and tended to stick out for my outfits. Also doesn't help that I'm NB and have body-image issues, plus tend to go for more masc clothes (even when I was little apparently) and struggle with feeling the need to present properly.
(August 9, 2024 - 7:04 pm)