As of forty

Chatterbox: Down to Earth

As of forty

As of forty minutes ago, I'm initiating Project Change Sleeping Cycles.

Since, you know, winter break starts in a few days and Cornell's OCAAT schedule lends itself absurdly well to the Uberman sleep schedule and... I want to. Because the traditional monophasic sleep cycle doesn't work (If I feel energised at all after sleeping, it only lasts for a few hours, not the full awake stage like it's supposed to. And it's touch and go, I can sleep for an hour and then go for the rest of the day, but turn around and sleep the full eight and barely be able to make it through morning class. And then there's the fact that I've had chronic insomnia problems since elementary school.) and I'm curious as to whether a polyphasic cycle would work better for me.

For those of you who don't know: The Uberman sleep schedule is a polyphasic schedule of sleep, in which you take periodic, half-hour long naps throughout the day, as opposed to the traditional monophasic 6-8 hours of sleep in one big chunk. Apparently it feels like being repeatedly run over by a cement truck for the first two weeks or so, and then supposedly it's awesome. So if it works, I'll be sleeping for a half hour at 12, 4, and 8 in the morning and then again in the evening, with 3 and a half hour gaps between each nap. There is some debate as to the long term health effects of doing it but, as I mentioned, I'm not getting the supposed oh-so-magical energy and cognitive benefits from attempting to stick to a purely monophasic or even the psuedo-biphasic schedule I've switched to here (afernoon naps on days I don't have afternoon class, basically) and, at this point, I'm willing to risk not operating at my quote-unquote maximum capacity in exchange for actually being able to feel awake consistently. So I'm going to give the Uberman schedule a go, since there isn't much scientific data at all, pretty much everything I've been able to find is entirely anecdotal or speculation, so why not? The alternative is free running sleep, which... isn't feasible in a college setting. Because from what I can gather from my own natural tendencies towards sleep, it would entail going to bed around 2-3 am and then getting up at 3-4 pm. Sorry, proponents of free running sleep, but society does not work that way.

For the record, these are the various things I've done previously to attempt to "fix" and/or compensate my insomnia issues (stop judging me, I'm in a list mood):

~Going to sleep at a predetermined, specific time every night no matter what, with several different bedtimes (mostly in elementary/middle school, with bedtimes ranging from 7-10 o'clock at night) and getting up at the same time every morning (usually 6:30). 

~The "free running" sleep thing (vacations, weekends) wherein you go to sleep when you're "sleepy" and get up when you wake up naturally (always late afternoon, regardless of when I go to sleep, which results in things like sleeping for twenty hours straight when I'm not sick). Which is, again, not socially acceptable and I would still get tired pretty quickly. Mother said it was "oversleeping" but it happened regardless of how long I'd actually slept.

~Just trying to get eight hours no matter what. 

~Eight hours a night + an hour or so nap in the afternoons when I feel ABSOLUTELY LIKE I'M GOING TO DIE (recently. Because college is tiring, guys.) 

With all of these various strategies, I have very specific sleep patterns, as follows:

~Stereotypical insomniac 'tossing and turning', usually for periods of 2-3 hours, but occasionally much longer (just last night, for example, I literally went to bed at ten and then didn't drop off until well after 3 am. And then I woke up at 4:30. Boo.). I've tried both of the two most-cited "solutions" to this, namely either relaxing/meditative techniques (deep breathing, calm thoughts etc.) and getting up and doing "relaxing activities" like reading for 15-20 minutes. Neither works. (Neither does cutting out caffeine. Basically I've tried everything short of sleep meds which I will never do, because I hate taking medication of any kind and only do it in dire circumstances, like when I had that GIANT cavity and would literally wake up screaming because it hurt so much. And even then I only had like... three tablets of aspirin over a period of a week (after which I got it filled and there was no more pain yay!). /unrelated rant)

~Following the tossing and turning, I spend fairly long amounts of time in a semi-conscious haze, which mostly entail lying very still with my eyes shut, thinking about random things but unable to actually get to sleep. This is how I spend the majority of my sleep time, and sometimes I can trigger it pretty quickly, if I'm at the right amount of sleepy/awakeness. It's... pretty restful actually. And often mistaken for sleep by people who see me in it, because usually the most I can muster whilst in it is a vague mumbling-- I'm fully aware of what's going on around me, just can't be bothered to respond to it because I'm trying to zarking sleep.

~Sometimes I eventually slide into actual sleep, which rarely lasts for longer than an hour and a half-ish. I always know when I've actually gotten to sleep, because I'll black out entirely and wake up again seemingly seconds later, but the clock has changed. From what relatives have told me, I'm like a rock when I'm like this.

~After a period of 1.5-2 hours, I re-enter the semiconscious state, with slightly more consciousness than before. That usually doesn't last for more than an hour, at which point it's back to the restless tossing and turning, or I get up. Whether I get up or toss and turn depends largely on whether it's a socially acceptable hour to be up doing things (is it four in the morning, or nine in the morning?)

~Once I'm actually up, I feel pretty groggy regardless of how much or how little I've slept and/or been semi conscious. This lasts for 2-3 hours usually, and it's almost impossible to stay properly awake during this period (I keep wanting to go straight into the semi-conscious state).

~After that, I feel pretty awake, still noticebly tired but alert enough to function for another few hours. It starts to ebb off after a short period (during school years, when I'd be up at 7ish every day, the ebb reaches its lowest point around 3-4 pm). That's followed by a brief (<hour) return of super grogginess.

~Next I start to develop that over-energized, annoyingly glassy wide awake feeling you get if you stay up SUPER LATE/ALL NIGHT. You know, the one where you feel like you've been vacuum sealed into Saran rap but you aren't tired so you can't sleep. It gets progressively worse as it gets later, but never entirely goes away, which is what causes the extended tossing and turning described at the top of this list.

Usually when I refer to sleep, I mean the semi-conscious state, because I so rarely actually sleep (assuming your definition of "sleep" is one which excludes a continued cognizance of events happening around you. And no, I don't dream about those events. I spent awhile postulating that that's what was happening, so I tried an experiment, namely, writing out lists of everything that happened while I was semi-conscious, and then checking it with the people who had been in the room at the appropriate times. I got basically everything right and was often able to figure out what people had been doing in my room just from what I had heard, i.e. Quinn coming in through the bathroom, saying "Haley are you awake?" then immediately going to rummage through my bookshelf for about five minutes. From which I surmise that I was either (a) having psychic dreams [unlikely] or (b) actually pretty conscious, just functionally nonresponsive).

Yeah. [Yes, I have been obsessively analyzing my sleeping habits and patterns since I was... elevenish?. If you had developed chronic insomnia when you were a nine (and nobody believed you because "kids don't get insomnia" and you're actually getting enough sleep and not realizing it, and the fact that you toss and turn for hours every night is irrelevant and that you're tired all the time isn't because of insomnia, it's because you're basically making up symptoms to get attention not that I'm bitter or anything but, seriously!), you would be neurotic about sleep too.]

Has anyone else here experimented with/contemplated alternative sleep cycles? Or had/have insomnia problems? Or... something? Night terrors? (never had those, they don't sound fun) Exciting dreams? I don't know. Talk about sleep, darlings! 

submitted by TNÖ, age 18, Deep Space
(December 20, 2011 - 3:45 am)

When I have trouble getting to sleep, it's often because I have too many things I need to do on my mind. So I keep a little notepad and pencil on the nightstand and can jot down notes without even turning the light on then forget about it because I know the note will be there in the morning (although it may be a bit of a challenge to decipher my in-the-dark scribbles).

 

It seems to help to get plenty of physical exercise during the day.

 

Sometimes while lying in bed I create a fantasy story in my mind with myself as lead character letting it take me wherever it goes. . . .

 

I make it a practice never to look at the clock and worry about what time it may be.

 

Reading a boring book in bed may help. I remember days of falling asleep in the college library when I was supposed to be reading some textbook.

 

I hope some of this helps!

submitted by Admin, Cricket Country
(December 20, 2011 - 2:39 pm)

Back to the top!

submitted by Admin
(December 20, 2011 - 2:42 pm)

Haha! Boring books! Try Heidi; It'll send you right to sleep and give you charming dreams as well.

submitted by Emily L., age 16, WA
(December 20, 2011 - 4:06 pm)

!!!!!
Sleep.
First of all, I have on occasion experienced some of this various stuff which you speak of, and I'm really sorry, because it hurts me to even read about it. It sounds like he...ck.

I've heard that sometimes people have insomnia due to hormone problems. (Not that kind, but like thyroid or something.) It can run in the family.

I had a thyroid problem and I had hair loss, it was awful. It was falling out all over the place, and... my hair used to be great, but we're still trying to get it back to normal. My mom felt so sorry that she didn't pay attention when I told her what was happening. She was like, "everyone loses hair," and I was like, "Well, I'm losing a lot," and she's like, "Are you getting bald patches?" and I said, "No," and she kind of figured it couldn't possibly be that bad then. It's supposed to take up to a year to grow back all the way.

The first year I went to camp, I had a horrible time sleeping the first night. I doubt I slept a wink. Maybe an hour near the morning. Every twenty minutes the fan went on or off with a big thump. It was like you said, just kind of lying there. The next day was fine until about two in the afternoon, then I felt a bit tired and had to sit down a lot. In evening chapel I almost fell asleep. Actually I was trying to, but since I couldn't lie down, it didn't work. At the end of chapel, I was really really sleepy, but they had us sing this song which had you standing up or sitting down at different parts, but I just couldn't do it, and one of the girls in the cabin tried to haul me up... yeah. But it gets worse. Then there were these flashing lights, and it turned out there were night games that day. Which I was really disappointed to miss, but after I had stumbled back into the cabin and got into the bunk I just point-blank refused to go. At first the counselor wasn't sure if she was allowed to leave me there, but what I told her basically amounted to, "If you want me to come you'll have to drag my dead body with you." So I was allowed to stay. That was nearly 40 hours without sleep.

I've never had night terrors either. I have had, though, dreams that I'm still awake.  I HATE those. I hate them. I hate them. Gosh, those suck.

I have wished to experiment with alternative sleep cycles in the past but I can't... school, and what my parents call The World We Live In. I used to have insomnia, but it's not so bad now, though, so that's good.

submitted by Emily L., age 16, WA
(December 20, 2011 - 3:26 pm)

The longest I've ever gone without any sleep/rest periods is... um... I think in the neighborhood of 48 hours. At which point you start to actually hallucinate, which is all kinds of fun.

Insomnia, especially childhood insomnia, has been tentatively linked to Asperger's, so that's a possibility. In which case I will either outgrow it or just have to figure out how to deal with it... blaargh. 

For me it's mostly that, especially in the tossing period, I can't stop thinking about things. Usually it's fictional stories, either ones I'm legit writing or ones that I just amuse myself with. Which would be very well and good, imagination and all that, except that in the nine-odd years that this has been a problem, I haven't figured out how to turn it off.

Mother sets a lot of store by the stress theory, to the point that if I mention that I "didn't sleep well" she automatically assumes it's because I'm worried about school and basically tells me to "just relax." And I'm like, uh, no.

Sucks about the thyroid problem. That sounds... severely unpleasant. Especially the hair loss-- I'm imagining big chunks, like what happens with me (although in my case it's just that I have so much hair that my head literally isn't big enough, so stuff falls out at a regular rate but there is no actual diminishment in volume)? Nasty. 

I don't really dream very often, but when I do it's very vivid and usually involves (painless) injury to myself (broken legs, getting eaten by velociraptors, that sort of thing, always from a close out-of-body perspective) and very mild phantom pain when I wake up. 

As far as alternative sleep cycles... the only reason I didn't try sooner is that high school does not lend itslef to a polyphasic cycle. At all.

For myself I intend to experiment until I either (a) give it up as a lost cause and switch back to the pseudo-biphasic thing I was doing before, or (b) find an optimum schedule. (Thus far the standard uberman's working well, though I think it's far too early to make any real judgement calls and I suspect some juggling will occur over break. At any rate, I stayed consistently awake and alert today. It was glorious.) 

@Admin: Thanks for the advice :)

I've heard the notepad thing before, but I've never tried it, because I think predominately in images, not words. Writing for me entails describing those images accurately, which is a really difficult thing to do, especially in comparison to the relatively passive action of simply thinking and remembering those thoughts.

[A note about my thought process for clarity's sake: I dissociate at a very low level constantly. The only times I have ever actually thought in first person were when I was consciously forcing myself to do so, and it always always feels bizarre and... wrong, I guess. Anyway, usually, when I think about myself, I'm looking at myself over the left shoulder, observing. On the rare occasion that my conscious thoughts actually refer to myself, it's always as "she," never a name and never "I." When I was a kid I talked in third person a lot, again with just pronouns, until I found out you weren't supposed to. To this day I sometimes slip up and refer to myself in the third person, but for the most part I've got my mouth trained pretty well. Anyway, point being, I think in pictures and when I verbalize those pictures I do it in third person.]

As far as physical exercise/activity goes, it does help me get through the tossing and turning phase faster (down to 1-2 hours generally) and stay asleep/semi-conscious for longer, but I don't actually feel any more rested when I wake up. And that's even with extreme cases like being up in the mountains and skiing for literally eight hours in one day, or camps like OFCR where you wake up at 7 am and go nonstop until 11 pm (with the former being just physically exhausting, and the latter being exhausting mentally, emotionally, and physically).

I don't actually have a clock, but I do have a watch, and I usually bury it under my pillow so I can't hear it. Periodic checks ensure my continued sanity, however, because I'm actually pretty good at judging the passage of time whilst in bed, but like to make sure every now and again.

And I have never in my life fallen asleep while reading a book. Stared blankly at the same word for thirty minutes straight, yes, fallen asleep, no. I think probably because, if the book is engaging, I see it happening in my head, and if it's a boring book, I regress to telling myself stories instead and, as I mentioned above, I still haven't figured out how to turn the stupid thing off.

Also! Admin! You topped a thread! has this ever happened before?! :D 

 

Never! Yours was the first one I ever topped. Because I realized by submitting a separate reply (instead of just tacking on the original comment like I am now) I was sending it to one of the last pages. I didn't reply like that because I wanted to get your comment posted right away and didn't have time to reply right then. Capisce?

Admin

submitted by TNÖ, age 18, Deep Space
(December 20, 2011 - 7:19 pm)

I feel so special :D

submitted by TNÖ, age 18, Deep Space
(December 20, 2011 - 11:34 pm)

That's funny- I dream in third person sometimes. And some of my really old memories are from over my own shoulder. (?) But yay! I anylize myself a lot too, I just don't talk about it much because people might think I'm wierd. But I don't think you're weird...er than me.


Woo, we're getting some major jungle rains here. It sounds like a million cats scratching on a million doors. (Weird simile of the day)

But with the hair, it wasn't really like, chunks, it was just like it was sliding out all the time (I have really fine hair anyway) and it was always all over the place.

Anyway, good luck with your new schedule.

PS: Have you tried praying about it? It works for me, especially for stopping nightmares. I never have bad dreams when I pray before bed. Not even one time, I don't think.

submitted by Emily L., age 16
(December 21, 2011 - 2:25 am)

I have almost the same problem, just not as severe. I can usually sleep before 1. So I sneak my iPod at 11:30 after I've nearly exhausted my iPad's battery and the booklight battery. Then I exhaust my iPod battery, so I end going to sleep around 1:30. And then I charge everything the next day. Go to school. Hide aforementioned objects in bedroom. Repeat. I've found that one of the advantages to this is that I usually have dreams, and really interesting ones too. Last night I had this dream involving sideway trees, a hunt for a dead person, a trap which then resulted in a hostage exchange, and a dragon. Really quite fun.

submitted by SC, age gone
(December 20, 2011 - 5:37 pm)

Ooh, this is interesting. While my sleep schedule is and has always been purely monophasic, and it's worked fine for me, I've done some research on this and the promise of more waking hours is one that I find intrinsically appealing; I look at sleep as more an unfortunate necessity than anything else. But I'm in high school, so this really wouldn't work for me.

submitted by ZNZ
(December 21, 2011 - 9:16 am)