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-The Horse Group- (Jaybells, Artemis, and me - we were grouped together on the MaF thread).
I'm back on the CB at last, and ready to chat! I have a vacation from school right now, which is... relaxing. I
spent some of my time looking for potential AE names in a book about
wildflowers. I got a couple of ideas, but some of the names were
hilarious - I found myself contemplating the names "Rough Bedstraw,"
"Hatpin," and "Stinking Benjamin." Those are literally flower names?!
My family and I have also been opening Christmas presents and talking virtually or by telephone with my relatives. My great-uncle, whom I've never met, called up yesterday, and my sister and I got to talk with him for a bit. It was really nice because I've heard a lot about him and always wanted to get to know him, and he's also a very interesting person. And we had turkey for dinner, of course. @Jaybells, in Britain/Ireland, is turkey usually eaten at Christmas? I just realized that maybe it's only a Canadian/American tradition.
Anyway, how've your holidays been?
I'm so excited to talk with you guys! :)
submitted by Poinsettia, age immortal, Narnia
(December 26, 2022 - 4:22 pm)
(December 26, 2022 - 4:22 pm)
Hi, welcome back again! :)
A favorite character... There's a girl I wrote about in one of my fantasy novels whom I've always liked, because she's sort of fiery and queenly and good at leading. (Actually I posted a short excerpt from that novel on Amethyst's "Feedback on writing" thread in the Inkwell, in case you want to read it.) But other than that, most of my characters are my favorites! As for coming up with my characters, it depends, I guess. Sometimes they're created just to fit a specific role in the plot, and their personalities just come to me based on what I think a person who's ended up in that role would probably be like. Or sometimes they're the people I wish I could meet. I've heard of a lot of famous writers who base their characters on real people, but I don't do that very often; maybe it'll happen more as I grow older. What about you? Who are your favorite characters from your books, and how do you come up with them?
Jeans are nice, I agree. And collared shirts. I like polo shirts especially. I personally tend to like bright colors, but not generally neons. :)
(February 2, 2023 - 9:19 pm)
ok, interesting. would that be Indiria? I think i saw that excerpt a while ago...
yeah, i've heard that basing characters on people is how Maggie Stiefvater invents her characters... I don't do it much either, except maybe subconsciously. sometimes i realize this character or that is basically me (often with my protagonists); but then, all my characters are like me in some way or another. it's usually not on purpose, though. honestly, i'm not sure i could base characters on real people (who are not me), because i need to have insight into my characters' flaws/inner thoughts, and i don't have insight into very many real people's flaws and inner thoughts. the number of people i know really well is maybe four :P. idk. i will say that basing charries on people is a Generally Good Idea, because writing, like all art, is best when it draws from life. and people are each obviously very unique, so this strategy helps avoid the all-too-common pit trap of Overused Character Archetypes.
Of my own characters, I'm fond of all of them, of course, but there's one in particular who is probably my favorite of all. like many of my charries, she's gone through many iterations, but she's usually an approximately 15-year-old girl named Grace. she's very empathetic and kind, but she can be fierce and stubborn at times as well. she's probably slightly too "perfect," actually, which might be why i like her so much, haha. making realistically flawed characters can be difficult.
sometimes i'm inspired by someone else's characters; sometimes, like you, i have a role to fill and this particular person seems like they'd work; sometimes they pop into my head fully formed. Usually it's the second, i think, because i tend to come up with stories before characters.
do you think you'd like to do something writerly as a job, or is it more of a hobby/side passion? if the latter, what do you want to do when you're older?
(February 5, 2023 - 12:20 pm)
(February 8, 2023 - 10:56 am)
(February 8, 2023 - 7:25 pm)
I'm back at last! Sorry I took a while to reply. :/
I remember posting an excerpt from a novel about Indiria on the... I think it was the Writober thread. (By the way, I saw a lot of ways to improve it after I'd posted it *sigh*) But the excerpt I was thinking of was on the Feedback on Writing Thread, on page 2 of the Inkwell. It's more about the setting of the novel than about Arinna (the main character) but still, it is told from her point of view, so it gives you some insights into her personality.
Yes, the characters' inner thoughts are so important! For me, I tend to discover them as I write about them, but getting insight into real people's thoughts can be hard, especially when you don't know many people (I can definitely relate to that!). That's one of the reasons I like Dickens and Shakespeare - reading about their characters is just like meeting real people, so it helps for my own character development! Even so, I probably draw from Overused Archetypes somewhat too much :/ Anyway, long story short, I agree that it's usually the best plan to draw from real life; I guess that's what makes a piece of writing meaningful to everyone, not just the author.
Grace sounds like a great character! (Btw, how did you decide to name her Grace? and isn't the naming of characters almost the nicest part of creating them? :D) A lot of my characters are slightly on the "perfect" side as well, but what I say is, better for them to be too perfect than too flawed... Of course there are always the villains, though, who are generally Very Wicked, at least I always make them that way. (Again, I should probably work on making them more like complex people with their own Very Unjustified Motives, rather than just stereotypical evil people.) Quick question: do you like to have your villainous characters reform at the end, or just have them get defeated (but stay wicked even so)? Oh, and do you like to plan out stories and novels first, or just write them?
I'd love to be a professional novelist if I could, but I might not be able to actually support myself that way, even if I wrote the type of popular novels that seem very uninteresting to me, and I wouldn't enjoy doing that anyway. Also, I do have a couple of other ideas for careers... maybe a social worker or a Congressperson or something like that, some job where I could actively help other people. Of course writing is a way to make the world a better place; you can change people's opinions and get them to take action on situations and all that. But I'd like to do something a little more hands-on. What about you?
(February 10, 2023 - 9:58 pm)
no worries!
ohh right... ok, i've hunted down the Arinna snippet. yeah, this is mostly setting. But you do get a bit of her. Nice imagery!
yeah, the old Overused Archetypes (these Inappropriate Caps are becoming a signature anomaly of my writing style--) can be hard to avoid.
thanks ^^ I'm not sure how I came up with the name Grace, actually. I'm not even sure when i first came up with the character... naming characters is fun! it can be difficult to find (or invent) a name that fits the character, but it's so satisfying when you do.
personally, i think very flawed characters, antagonists or otherwise, are interesting. some of the best works of literature have protagonists that have very deep problems. though (obviously) you want your audience to like your protagonists, unless you're making some kind of thematic point.
mm. i think all of my villains to date have stayed wicked until the very end. redemption is an interesting concept, though. what do you usually do?
i'm very much a plan-beforehand writer, when it comes to longer stories and novels. with short stories, poetry, etc, i just take my idea and run wild with it, because it's a lot easier to finish and edit shorter stuff. novels take more stamina and revisions, so i like to have a plan for them. again, you?
yeah, supporting oneself is the main problem with being a professional novelist. i definitely want to try, though. when i was younger i wanted to be an artist, a painter or something, and i don't want to stop making art anytime soon, but that's not what i want to do for a living. writing is like my *thing* now. if i can't make it just writing stories, though, i'll probably find some adjacent job like journalism or something.
social worker/Congress sounds cool! it's awesome that you want to do something like that, to help people.
(February 12, 2023 - 4:39 pm)
OK, this is going to be sort of short... sorry!! I'm just really busy with school right now cause I'm doing a research project that has to be handed in on Monday and i still have so much to do aaaaah
I think I usually keep my wicked characters wicked, but every now and again I find it nice to have them reconcile with the hero(ine). (I wonder why I usually write about female protagonists. Hmm.) That actually happened in the novel which the excerpt on the Feedback on Writing thread is on... there was a villainess, who turned out to be the heroine's half-sister, and repented.
I used to write my novels/stories just as they came to me, without thinking about what was going to happen, and I still do that to some extent, like with my ski-lodge, which I didn't want to bother planning about. It sort of makes it interesting to do that, because it's like reading a book - you don't know yourself what's going to happen next! But lately I've gotten into planning beforehand, because I have a clearer idea of what I want the book to be like, and planning helps me to keep it along those lines. Novels do take stamina... I've only written short ones, though; I've never been able to make them that long. :/ Do you tend to write really long, in-depth novels, or just shortish ones?
Journalism would be great! And thanks :) yeah, helping people is something that kind of inspires me a lot. that and having fun :) Do you have anything specific that makes a job attractive to you?
(February 14, 2023 - 7:42 pm)
(i think i do the same thing! probably because i am female and so female protagonists are easier to relate to? idk.) ooh cool! that story sounds interesting. if you ever post more of it, i'd read it!
yeah, writing stories without a plan can be fun! i did write a longer novel-ish thing once completely from scratch -- i never finished it, but i enjoyed writing it. my average story-length has grown over the years. when i was first starting they were really short, like fifteen pages or something. when i was twelve i wrote my first technical "novel," 42,000 words, and i've written a couple stories that are about 60-70k each, ~200 pages on google docs. so fairly respectable, but not gigantic, and not really as long as fantasy novels tend to be, i think. as i get older & more experienced as a writer, it gets easier to write longer & more complex stories. all my ideas start out really simple, of course, because they're just sparks, beginnings. it takes a lot of thought to develop that into a coherent, complex narrative. i enjoy that, though! i've always rather dreaded revisions, and i've hardly ever gone past first drafts with lots of my stories, but i like the planning beforehand and the actual writing.
i don't know much about journalism, but it does sound interesting! ofc i'm only fourteen, so i have plenty of time to learn about it, if i do end up pursuing that. it's always great when you can help people and have fun at the same time :)
well, definitely that it's something i love. idealistically, i never want to do a job that i'm not passionate about, which basically means i don't want to do anything except make art :> but i do want to positively influence people's lives somehow, even if it's in a really small way.
and honestly, another thing is proximity to people. i'm very introverted and anxious, and i would not enjoy a job that involves lots of direct contact with people. of course i don't want to be completely isolated, but i wouldn't want to do something like counseling or waitressing, where you kind of have to be good at talking to strangers. you're pretty different from that, though, aren't you? you're an extrovert, right?
(February 16, 2023 - 7:43 pm)
Thank you! I'm considering posting more of my writing - I'd love to, but I know that if I do I won't be able to enter it in a contest or try to get it published when I'm older, because it'll be connected to me on the CB, so... :/ But I do want to get around to doing it more.
200 pages online docs!! I'm in awe :) I'd never find the time, or the dedication to be frank, to write anything that long - at least not yet. Yeah, getting older does help to write longer novels, which is good. Once I was writing one and trying to finish it, but it wouldn't finish - it kept going off on tangents, which I think made it one of my more well-developed ones, but I got so impatient because I just wanted to get to the end of it!
My ideas tend to get more complex too as I go writing; subplots develop, and new characters, and all the rest of it. I love how when I write, ideas just come to me; it's so much fun to watch it all developing. I kind of like revising when it's just small-scale, like correcting words or rearranging sentences for the best effect, but going over and over a draft and polishing it can be such hard work... and then I never like redoing something that seems perfectly all right to me but that probably wouldn't come up to the standard of whoever will be reading it.
What's your favorite part of the actual writing? character development, description of settings, climaxes, anything else? Or do you just like all of it? :)
Mm, yes, I do tend to be more extroverted, although during the pandemic I've kind of had to develop my introversion a bit more, due to having to stay at home and all that. By nature, though, I'm more of a bouncy type :) I'd probably be okay in a job that requires more interaction with people.
Do you think you'll go to college? and if so, would you want an American college or a college abroad? (I've been giving a lot of thought to what universities I'll be choosing, so my mind is kind of running along those lines lately :D)
(February 18, 2023 - 9:52 pm)
does posting things online count as publishing?? i'm pretty sure the answer to that question varies depending on what it is and where you posted it, etc. but i'm no expert.
*bows* thank you! revising is a lot of work, fixing plot holes & stuff. i usually feel when i'm finished writing a novel that it's not my best work at all; I can see so many things wrong with it. this tends to lead to me abandoning the project and starting something new and shinier, and the cycle repeats :/ but i'm trying to actually stick to my story this time. and it's not the concept itself i tend to become disenchanted with; it's just the way i've tried to capture it with words. some writer whose name i can't remember once described that as the story idea being a butterfly, and actually writing it being capturing it and pinning it to a board -- the pinned butterfly is pretty, but it can never be as pretty as it was in your imagination.
mm. i'm very fond of writing descriptions. i love beautiful, poetic imagery -- writing it almost as much as reading it. and it's so satisfying when you manage to capture the feeling of a setting, person, whatever, almost exactly the way you pictured it in your head. (plus i get to use all my favorite pretty words.) but developing characters is also awesome. i think that characters are really the most important part of any story, actually. you?
yeah, i'm planning to go to college, almost definitely an American college. I love the idea of traveling to foreign countries, but i don't think i'd feel as comfortable living there, trying to be part of a community that belongs to a culture that isn't mine. i guess i might try an international college, or something in England, possibly. mostly i've been thinking of in-state schools, though, cuz tuition. we'll see. do you want to go to school abroad?
(February 22, 2023 - 4:06 pm)
I guess it doesn't actually count as publishing, but publicly sharing my writing both on the CB and irl still links the irl me to the CB me (Poinsettia)... and also, if it's online, anybody else could claim to have written it themselves, which might lead to complications. :/
Yeah, that's the trouble with revising. And yes, I know that feeling of finding that the words you've used just don't measure up to what you were trying to say... it's bothersome. But then, I guess that's part of being a writer, and the good thing is that if you keep practicing, it'll still communicate your idea to the reader :) Actually, I suppose that's part of the reason writers are always supposed to read really well-written books, because that's kind of the only way to learn how to really describe properly what you were trying to say.
Descriptions are nice! For me, I guess my favorite part is description, like you, because it's so satisfying to create something thrilling or hilarious or beautiful or whatever :) I also like creating plots and subplots - it's fun to watch them develop.
College abroad would be nice; I believe it would be less expensive, and maybe give me the type of education I'm looking for, where the emphasis is on learning both skills/knowledge and on doing what you love and having a fun, useful life, instead of just trying to make money. I also really want one that encourages you to think critically, not just follow the herd, and that doesn't follow the herd itself. I don't know if there are any colleges left that are like that, but if there are, I think they might be more likely to be in Europe or Mexico. I'd be more comfortable with the cultural aspect of it, too; since I'm partly Mexican, I'd be fairly at home in most Latin cultures (Spain, Portugal, Italy...).
Traveling to foreign countries would be really fun! If you could travel anywhere, blithely disregarding the Limitations of the Modern World and Greedy Airlines who Charge Too Much, which countries would you choose?
(February 23, 2023 - 9:35 pm)
(February 18, 2023 - 6:05 pm)
(forgot about my promise to keep up with this but will hopefully be more faithful in future!!)
true that :|
exactididically! writers are necessarily readers, as they all say.
mm, yes. i read a bit of Alfred Tennyson's poetry recently; this comes to mind because his poems are full of wonderful imagery and descriptions, as well as being admirably rhymed and written in occasionally confounding Shakespearean-esque English. as i have said in the past, i am fond of prose descriptions that flow almost like poetry.
really? why would it be less expensive? i haven't heard of anything like that. but i know next to nothing about foreign universities.
ohh yes. America (or maybe just the modern world -- but Americans in particular, i feel like) is way too crazy about money. i don't really understand pursuing a career you're not actually passionate about for monetary reasons. although, i guess, if you don't have any idea of what you want to do, your first thought might be financial. do you know of any specific foreign universities you'd like to go to?
ah, if only we could blithely disregard the Limitations of the Modern World (and, yes, Greedy Airlines who Charge Too Much). that'd be awesome. i want to see Britain and Ireland. Neverwhere has instilled in me a desire to see London, and i've long been interested in Ireland. My family is ancestrally quite British and Irish. I'm tentative about language barriers, but we're disregarding the Limitations of the Modern World, so Greece. Japan. Maybe somewhere in the Middle East. Irl, i've never actually been outside the country, but I want to. where do you want to go? tangential: where would you live, if you could live anywhere?
(March 2, 2023 - 5:28 pm)
I'm back! :)
Oh yes, Tennyson's descriptions are beautiful! Have you read the one that begins "The splendor falls from castle walls/And snowy summits old in story"? I think it's called Songs. Of all his poems, that's one of the ones I like best. Do you have a favorite Tennyson poem, or a favorite poet?
I'm not exactly sure why a foreign college would be less expensive, but I think it's because a) you can get more generous scholarships and b) the overall tuition fees are less outstanding. Some universities in Mexico, for instance, are free! Of course, you have to be a very, very good student if you want to get in, but if you're accepted, you don't have to pay anything. At least, that's the way it used to be - Mexico's changing so fast now that I'm not sure if that's still true. Anyway, that's why I said that college abroad would be less expensive... If you ask me, education in university, at least in universities that aren't private, ought to be free everywhere.
I'm not sure of which university in particular I'd choose. I mean, I know of a few that I might consider, but I haven't actually looked into them yet. I suppose I'll have to be starting to think seriously about them at some point.
I hate to say it, but I kind of agree about how the US is too focused on money. Like you say, it's kind of a characteristic of the modern world, but it seems like it's more deeply ingrained into American culture than other cultures. Which makes sense - the US was founded partly by people trying to raise tobacco and sell it, or kill beavers and get their skins for hats, or other financial enterprises, so maybe that's where it comes from. It's always interesting to look at how a country was founded, and at its early history, because you often find that its effects are still present, even hundreds of years later.
Britain and Ireland and all those other places would be amazing! I kind of find it interesting that you mentioned Japan, because it seems like a lot of CBers are very into Japan and Japanese; do you have any ideas about why there's that trend??
I'd probably go to Spain; it would be wonderful to see the Alhambra Palace in Granada (I love Moorish architecture!) Greece and the Middle East would be fascinating too - Iran, for instance, if it weren't in the middle of a revolution. (My dad's actually been to Greece and Turkey, but I didn't get to go!!) Or India. Paris would also be lovely. And I'd also love to spend a few days on a nice Caribbean beach... Heck, if I could travel anywhere, I'd probably go all over the planet :) In real life, I've only traveled to Mexico and Portugal, and I've gone to several parts of the US, but I've always loved it. I hope you'll get the chance to go to another country sometime :)
Now, as to living anywhere I'd like... probably Mexico, because I used to live there and it's home for me, or else Spain or Portugal or Paris. I'm pretty sure I'd want to live in a city, where I can be more connected to the outside world. But then again, I love living here in [oops redacted for pRivaCy!]. I kind of think it would be ideal to move around a lot between a few particular locations, spending a few months in each one. Of course I'd never really do that, because of climate change and because it would be way too expensive... *sigh* But it's fun to imagine. What about you?
I saw on my Romance Recommendations thread that you'd read Momo! You're right that it's original; I don't think I've ever read anything quite like it. What did you like best about it?
(March 8, 2023 - 9:17 pm)
No, I don't think I've read that one, but I have his Complete Poetical Works sitting on my nightstand, so I'll go look it up; "snowy summits old in story," that's a lovely phrase
okay, I found it; it's in a longer poetic work of his called "The Princess."
...it's quite atmospheric. and the repetition of "Blow, bugle, blow, set the wild echoes flying/Blow, bugle; answer, echoes, dying, dying, dying" is so-- well, something. Chilling, almost (but in a this-is-great-poetry way, not an aah-that's-creepy-and-disturbing way). it is quite good... reminds me of The King of Elfland's Daughter, with the theme of horns and mention of Elfland, and just the general old-fashioned, fantastical writing style. they were not quite contemporaries, I don't think -- Alfred Tennyson and Lord Dunsany, who wrote The King -- but they were both lords, from Britain and Ireland, who wrote fantastical literature, so. have you read The King of Elfland's Daughter, by any chance?
but I'm departing on a tangent (as is my wont). I haven't read much of Tennyson yet, but of the poems I have read... well, hmm. that's actually pretty hard. I'll say "The Poet," although "The splendor falls..." is now vying for the spot as well. as for all-around favorite poet (I'm answering both of your questions despite the "or"), that would maybe be Emily Brontë?? but I'm also fond of Robert Frost and, yes this is a single poem and not a whole poet, but I must say "What if you slept?" by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. what about you? do you read a lot of poetry?
Okay. I think I've heard of some universities that'll give you free education if you're excellent; that sounds familiar. also maybe something that'd be more common outside of the U.S. but free college would be wonderful! I actually wrote a persuasive essay advocating for free public college in the eighth grade. I'm not entirely convinced of that, though, because who pays for it, if not the students? but we could probably make it work if we tried.
kind of in the same place! i know of a few colleges I'm sort of interested in, but i haven't done a lot of research. i don't really have to do that for a couple more years, though.
maybe that is where it comes from... capitalism. I don't know my American history very well, though. that's true, though, that the foundation of a country contributes quite a lot to its culture afterwards. the Romans killed Julius Caesar because he was trying to be a king and seven hundred years ago they'd been dominated by foreign kings.
all I know is that Japanese animé is quite popular nowadays, which I guess led to a general American interest in Japan? but I don't have any idea where the popularity of animé comes from -- if that is, in fact, where the whole thing started.
I looked up the Alhambra Palace, and it is quite beautiful! visiting palaces and other such storied architecture would be another reason to travel. America, for all its charm, has no castles. Greece and Turkey also sounds cool. my own parents have not gone out of the country either, except for two brief excursions to Mexico and Berlin.
well. hmm. I would either live in Indianapolis, where I grew up (I also like living in the city; half of the reason I do is nostalgia), or in some secluded house in the woods, maybe in Finland. I've moved several times in my life, and I have grown to dislike it, but if you're continually going back to the same places, I guess that would be pretty nice. like all the monarchs and their summer palaces.
best part. I think it's the originality, actually. I love books with strange magic and strange worlds, and just books that say something in a different way. that's a big part, i think, of what makes a story good.
(March 10, 2023 - 2:33 pm)