Places to Chat
Philosophy!&
Chatterbox: Down to Earth
Philosophy!&
Philosophy!
I would consider philosphy to be the single most important invention in human times. Without it, there would be no wheel, no technology, no mathematics, no religion, nothing created by people. Here's my philosophy (don't be offended)
Things only exist as how we can sense them. I sese my calculator to be blue, therefore for all intents and purposes, it is blue. I sense my fingers to be typing, therefore for all intents and purposes, they they are typing. We can't tell what matter 'really is' as we are limited by our senses. There is, in one section, your mind, where, you are trapped, only able to peek through the window of our senses, which may be shaded. Outside is reality, but one cannot know what it actually is, as we cannot observe anything except what our senses tell us. I could be upside down, dancing witha pony, but as I sense I am sitting at my computer, that is only what I can know. In the mind, there are you thoughts and feelings, where you intepret things. You all could sense the world very differently than me, but we'd refer to it the same way, as we'd think we'd be seeing the same thing. Your 'red' could be my 'blue' but we both call it red, so it is red. In fact, I can't know whether you actually exist or not, or if you are just chat-bots programmed to fool me. But, I seriously doubt that, as you all act very human. So, in short, we can only sense the world as we are able to, and we can never know what reality really is.
So, what are you views on the world?
submitted by Pirocks/Enceladus
(July 18, 2009 - 7:44 pm)
(July 18, 2009 - 7:44 pm)
Right before typing up a stinging comment, I decided that I'll sit out of this and all related debates. I'm just saying don't be surprised if I don't show up in philosophy/religion/intelligent design vs. evolution/global warming debates.
-EH
(July 21, 2009 - 7:56 pm)
Agreed. You all can go ahead with this if you want, and I'm not getting the way because somehow, whenever I try to shut these things down, they come back like weeds. So... yeah. :)
(July 22, 2009 - 7:30 am)
@ Ima: That is very logical of you, and a good interpretation of that particular verse. You make several very good points.
I'm not saying that smarter necessarily means better. However, compare, say, the life of an average human being to the life of an average giraffe. In 99.9% of the scenarios, which lifetime improves the world more?
@ Pirocks: Are you saying that you don't believe that we have free will?
(July 22, 2009 - 10:00 am)
It's true that a human is more likely to help the world than a giraffe, but a human is also more likely to harm the world than a giraffe as well.
(July 22, 2009 - 10:13 am)
A giraffe would harm the world less because it does not have an understanding of evil and good, harm or help. It doesn't have a choice to be harmless - it just is. A human, on the other hand, can make the choice as to whether or not s/he will harm or help the world.
(July 22, 2009 - 10:55 am)
Can you prove that, Niso? You can't. There is no proof, and it's not in the Bible either. You can go ahead and believe that if you want, but I don't have to agree. We have a difference of opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that, but please don't state your opinion as if it's a fact. Try to say 'I believe', or 'in my opinion' before you voice your philosophy. Trust me, it sounds a whole lot nicer.
And in response to your earlier comment (which I forgot to reply to) I said that I believe that we are more intelligent than animals. It's just that smarter doesn't mean better. I think you need to read my comment again
Can you please explain how being created in God's image means that animals don't have souls? I don't understand that.
(July 22, 2009 - 11:46 am)
I'm a programmed chat-bot. *grins*
I once knew a little kid who thought the sky was water, and we were seeing our reflection in it. Strangely, when I told him the truth, he totally didn't believe me. The idea of all planets revolving around the sun seemed crazy to him. It is funny how as we get older, we accept the idea of certain things being "real", whereas as younger kids, we question ideas and make up theories.
I LOVE Philosophy!
And lets try not to get too heated, because this is a thread worth keeping!
(July 22, 2009 - 5:54 pm)
I didn't say animals don't have souls, I just said that we humans are of more worth 'cause we were made in the image of God Himself! And that's amazing. I do not say "I believe" or "this is my opinion", because if I'm saying it without citing a source of proof, obviously it's my opinion. I think the giraffe/animal situation to be fact, but as I would be contradicting myself because I do not have sources to cite that from, I'm not going to push that it is fact.
(July 22, 2009 - 8:58 pm)
Edit to 1st comment: I did say they don't really have souls, I think this because if they did have souls, they'd be able to understand the concept of salvation and of morals; however, they don't. I believe scientists would also agree (though some scientists think we don't have souls either).
(July 22, 2009 - 9:02 pm)
I'm saying that it's possible that we don't, but we can never know. Perhap's we're all god's puppet show. Perhaps we're a computer program. Or, we could simply be rational beings that can make choices.
(July 23, 2009 - 6:19 am)
@ Ima: Animals were not created in God's own image and likeness; humans were. And that is indeed in the Bible:
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground." God created man in His image; in the divine image He created them; male and female he created them. -Genesis, 1:24-27, emphasis added.
Also: I'm sorry that I'm so oblivious, but will someone *please* explain what a "chat-bot" is? I've heard of them, but... I'm sort of clueless. :/
(July 23, 2009 - 12:06 pm)
I understand that only we were created in his image, and I'm honoured by that. But just because humans look like God doesn't we're better than the animals. Besides, how can we know why God made us in his image? Maybe 'twas because he wanted to remind us to try to be more like him (I'm not saying I believe that, I'm saying we don't know).
And as for the ruling thing, I gave my interpretation already.
(July 23, 2009 - 1:56 pm)
Same here... these crazy debates always
get out of hand and I'm not gonna get
myself all worked up again this time... :\
(July 24, 2009 - 4:20 pm)
Strange... how did this end up half way down
the page? I wrote it up there with Lena's... o.O
(July 25, 2009 - 3:08 pm)
Well, there's no way of proving that animals don't have an idea of what's right or wrong. I believe at least some of them certainly do.
Remember what I said before, about my dog trying to get my brother and I out of the water at the beach? I wholeheartedly believe that she cared about us, and thought we would drown. I can't think of any other reason for it, and if it's true, it would indicate a sense of right and wrong. And I don't think it's just my dog, either.
As for a sense of salvation, you can hardly blame them. If, all your life, you'd never heard of any God/gods before, how could you have a sense of one? 'Tis true that such a thing happened, with humans, a long time ago. But humans had been around since long before the first religeon started (and we had souls then)! Who knows? Maybe one day animals will have a sense of salvation! Assuming they don't already (I'm not saying I specifically believe they do, because I don't. I'm just saying only that there's no proof - although very few things can be proved).
And I therefore believe animals have souls. What's more, my dog seems so alive, I can't picture her without a soul. I just can't.
And I believe that even the creatures with no sense of right and wrong (tardigrades, etc.) have souls. A creature to whom doing evil doesn't even occur? That sounds almost better than a human to me. I admire them.
In fact, I think I saw a verse in the Bible somewhere (in the Olde Testament - maybe Isaiah?) that talked about animals in heaven...I need to check. *gets out Bible* *reads Isaiah* I found it! Isaiah 11:6-9. It goes: "Wolves will live with lambs. Leopards will rest with goats. Calves and lions will eat together. And little children will lead them around. Cows will eat with bears. Their young will rest together. And lions will eat straw like oxen. A baby will play near a hole where cobras live. A little child will put his hand into a nest where poisonous snakes live. None of these animals will harm or destroy anything or anyone on the holy mountain of Zion. The oceans are filled with water. In this same way, the earth will be filled with the knoweledge of the Lord."
My version says 'Earth', so maybe it's not heaven. It must be talking about the future then. The ocean is nothing but water, so does that mean it was talking about a time when animals will have knoweledge of salvation - unless you have another explaination, Niso?
So, in short, I believe that animals have souls.
(July 23, 2009 - 1:45 pm)