SUMMARY OF THIS
Chatterbox: Chirp at Cricket
SUMMARY OF THIS
SUMMARY OF THIS ARGUMENT
Gained:
Some new CBers such as Margret and BookBug
Equality
Lost:
Cho
Joss
Daisy
Novelist
Kaleidoscope Gryphon
Esthelle (At least staying in Scylla's story until it blows over)
submitted by Cber
(December 17, 2016 - 10:27 pm)
(December 17, 2016 - 10:27 pm)
We're hurting too, Ronan. (And BTW, I believe unicorns exist. :P)
And no, Coco is not making these lists. I believe it is the combined effort of several CBers.
(December 18, 2016 - 4:09 pm)
This is really well-written,and I totally agree. I'm kind of heartbroken that the CB was fractured because of this, and I don't really feel that equality should be put in quotations, although you do have every right to state your opinions.
Really? Joss left? Oh.
We took the quotations off equality. ~Admin
(December 18, 2016 - 5:51 pm)
Okay, why did you put equality in quotation marks? I normally don't get annoyed easily, but I will admit I find that very annoying. Whoever you are, CBer (and I think I know), don't think that means I have anything against you as a person, because I don't.
This was about more than just AEs. It was about characters, about equality. Real, true equality, not with quotation marks around it. Justt think: if same-sex orientated charries had been banned, what do you think might have happened? I think just as many people would have left. I...*gulp* I might have.
You didn't consider all the joy that came from the announcement too. Relief. Fear of being discriminated=gone.
People...please stop making angry threads. The results have been released. The CB is trying to recover, so if you disagree, disagree politely, but don't keep trying to drag us down. No offense, but threads like this one...they aren't going to do anything. The decision has been made and will not change. The only thing that can come from this thread is more distress, more people leaving. So just stop, please. We need to progress.
Of course I am sad those people are leaving. But we will recover. You know we will. I think it'll happen differently and maybe even faster than usual, since we have all this diversity to help. We always have. Right after a war is always a troubled time. On the CB, in history. But we recover. New CBers will keep coming. They will never replace the ones that left in our hearts, but people have always left the CB, and though we don't forget them, we keep going. I am just as downtrodden as the rest of you may feel, but you know what? This is a continuous cycle, and I have complete faith that we will get back on our feet. It's happened before. It will happen again.
From one of my favorite optimistic Barbra Streisand songs...
Don't tell me not to live,
Just sit and putter,
Life's candy and the sun's
A ball of butter.
Don't bring around a cloud
To rain on my parade.
Don't tell me not to fly--
I've simply got to.
If someone takes a spill,
It's me and not you.
I'll march my band out,
I'll beat my drum,
And if I'm fanned out,
Your turn at bat sir.
At least I didn't fake it.
Hat, sir, I guess I didn't make it!
But whether I'm the rose
Of sheer perfection,
Or freckle on the nose
Of life's complexion,
The cinder or the shiny apple of its eye,
I gotta fly once,
I gotta try once,
Only can die once, right?
Ooh, life is juicy,
Juicy, and you'll see
I'm gonna have my bite!
I simply gotta march,
My heart's a drummer.
Nobody, no, nobody
Is gonna rain on my parade!
If you must leave, then we will respect your decision. But if you decide to stay then wonderful! No matter what anyone says, we are all going to rebuild the CB.
(December 18, 2016 - 11:13 am)
Hear, hear!
Owlgirl is right. If the Admins had reached a different consensus, it's likely that just as many people would have left, including me.
(December 18, 2016 - 4:13 pm)
Agreed. I think I'd probably leave if LGBTQ+ Characters were banned. Equality is something that needs to be talked about, not shoved into quotes and villified. Angry posts don't really help the situation either, they just blame people for their opinons-NOT that I'm saying the writer of this post, or Cho, or anyone is doing that nessicarily, but all these post and threads in general kind of make my shoulders droop a little, oh gosh, now I'm being contradictory. Sorry. Ignore this. And this. And this.
(also, sorry I'm not really making my own post, I'm just kind of hiding behind other people's)
If you hadn't figured it out by now, I'M A MESS.
(December 18, 2016 - 6:02 pm)
Yes. It is. I would give my life if only there would be justice in this world.
(December 18, 2016 - 11:13 am)
When you phrase it like that, of course it sounds like it wasn't worth it. Wasn't really an accurate depiction. I'd like to amed the top part of the thingy:
Victories
- Increased awareness of issues
- More inclusivity
- Safer environment for LGBTQ+ CBers
- Larger room for creativity and self-expression
- Diversity
- Equality, not in quote marks
And of course I'm upset over our lost CBers. We all are. But that's the way it is in all wars. This one is different because it's a real issue that deeply affects real people.
(December 18, 2016 - 11:16 am)
They chose to leave. Nobody made them.
(December 18, 2016 - 1:10 pm)
Cho (P)
Coconut the Dog (P, I think)
Joss (P)
Daisy (P)
Novelist (P)
Kaleidoscope Gryphon (P)
Esthelle (B)
Little Reader (P)
Clouded Leopard (B)
P= Permanant
B= Break
That brings us to a total of nine.
(December 18, 2016 - 2:17 pm)
(December 18, 2016 - 4:16 pm)
Additions and corrections to that list:
1. They all chose to leave. Understand that. Some of them were begged to stay. No one has spoken directly against them to ask them to leave. They chose to leave.
2. As for the break, that is understandable, and quite a different thing from leaving. I myself may take a break from C@C and DtE but probably not because A) I don't want the break to be used as a casualty and twisted to become an argument for or against LGBT and B) it is important for people to stay behind, so I feel obligated to stay and make sure things get steadier, not shakier. Like what I'm doing right now.
2. Novelist didn't leave because of this--as she explained, the main reason she left was she had already been losing interest in the CB, that she felt it was time to move on.
3. CL's break situation is one of the most important points here, and different from other people's reasons. She fully supports LGBTQ+ rights, and the opposition of it on the CB has been too much for her to immerse herself in at the moment.
So although CL taking a break is a consequence of the argument in general, not the Admin's decision.
It is very important that people be able to distinguish between the two.
(December 18, 2016 - 6:34 pm)
(December 18, 2016 - 3:46 pm)
Yeah. Making it an even ten, whether or not it was caused directly by the fight.
(December 18, 2016 - 4:17 pm)
(December 18, 2016 - 6:04 pm)
Exactly what has been said before me.
Why was equality put in quotation marks? No, wait. Actually, I know why. It's because we "lost" Cho and Joss and Daisy and Nova. But let me tell you a little story.
Once upon a time, America was a racist country. And it's true-- nobody can deny it without lying. But then something called the Civil Rights Movement started. And we've progressed. We aren't perfect. Not even close. But we've progressed.
And guess what?
There were plenty of people who didn't believe in this Civil Rights Movement. People who thought black people were inferior to white people. What would the majority of Americans say to that now?
No, Cho and the others aren't racist. They are merely loyal to their religion. They made a conscious (I swear that word will be the death of me) decision to leave, and they left. Not because anyone told them to get out because of their religion. Simply because they didn't believe in what we believed in.
Let's continue with my story.
If the CB had existed back then, there probably would have been a post like this, with equality in quotes. But in the end, what do we think about those people who put equality in quotes?
We put labels on them.
We call them racist.
They were following their beliefs, yes. But to put equality in quotes is offensive and rude to most reading this.
Lastly, let me put a more literal take on equality in quotes for you.
Equality, noun. The state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.
That's the definition of equality.
Let's go through this one by one.
Did the Admins' proclimation make LGBT+ people equal in status in the CB to straight and cisgender people? Yes. Did the Admins' decision make LGBT+ people equal in rights in the CB to straight and cisgender people? Yes. Did the Admins' decision make LGBT+ people equal in opportunities in the CB to straight and cisgender people? Yes.
So we actually did achieve equality.
(December 18, 2016 - 4:00 pm)