Hi! I'm Icy.

Chatterbox: Blab About Books

For haters & lovers of Narnia, HP, LOTR, & PJ
Hi! I'm Icy....

Hi! I'm Icy. I'm new to this section of cricket, but I love Kyngdom. 

I'm also HP's 11th top fan.

But anyways.... This post is for haters and fans alike to have talks. I know, it seems hippie but its NOT to have rants on... It's to have peaceful discussions about the books. If you hate it, then don't get mad at the lovers!

If you love it, don't get mad at the haters! Or please try not to! Erm, anyways... This post is for discussion about Narnia, Fablehaven, Harry Potter, Lord of the rings, and Percy Jackson.

Doesn't it sound like all of these will get confused and jumbled up if they're all on the same thread?

Yup! Now let the talk begin!

I for one, am a Christian and like Narnia. But, some of the books in Narnia are a bit..well...odd. The Voyage Of The Dawn Treader was way better as a movie, whitch is pretty crazy because, well.... Whenever you finish watching a movie and are like "Hmm, I like that..." Someone comes barging in on you and screams "THE BOOK WAS WAY BETTER!" The Voyage Of The Dawn Treader was sort of strange... Like the things with the big feet? Totally weird and well...uncalled for. Could they have introduced Lucy's fears without it being, well, so weird? Totally. Also, I like HP better. People keep on screaming that Narnia is better because it is Christian. I am Christian, but I think that some of the books were poorly written. Also, The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe FTW!!!!! (I was kinda sad about how he made Susan into sin)

Harry Potter: Ok, maybe the first book (and only the first book) was a TINY BIT flat. But just an eeensie tiny bit flat! I was motivated to make this thread because I had seen the hater rant. There should never be an entire thread dedicated to rants! Maybe a good ol' rant is good once in a while, but not an entire thread. Thanks! ;)

Percy Jackson: Okay, the main charecter broke all sorts of stereotypes. For Example:  1: He wasn't all bold and saintlike all the time. 2: He wasn't super OP (Over-Powered) I love how he got the water power. Like, it wasn't very strong, but then again, it was. 3: Rule-Breaker FTW! That one is pretty self-explanatory. Also, Percy isn't exactly a normal kid like Harry started out as. Well, Harry was a slightly under-normal kid.

Lord Of The Rings: Tolkien gets a bit wrapped up in his universe that he created that he sometimes forgets hes telling a story. But I love Galadriel!

Fablehaven: I couldn't find any flaws, except that they sort of downplayed Seth. Kendra gets these awesome fairy powers and kills the demon king. Seth..well...he gets these powers that don't come fully mature (like Kendra's powers, which came in fully mature and ready) and well... It would make more sense for Seth to be able to see in the dark. But the dragon tamer thing when the both of them come together? Good stuff!

And now, it's your turn. 

submitted by Icy, age 11, The Forest
(April 25, 2016 - 11:33 am)

Oh my goshness I love all of those books!!! Except of LotR because I haven't read it but I probably would love it if I read it!!!

Narnia: I was too young when I read Narnia to get the religious stuff and the racist stuff. I just knew it was an awesome adventure with lions and dragons and evil apes.

Harry Potter is ONE OF THE BEST SERIES EVER and it's is a huge part of my life. I love all the characters (except Voldemort, Umbridge, Wormtail, ect.) and I think they all develop so much and are all so brave and so much more human than in some other books I have read. It's so cool how J.K. Rowling has created this whole new intricate, detailed world, that's so complex, unique, and exciting. It gives me and my friends something to talk about (Slytherin vs. Ravenclaw vs. Hufflepuff!) and debate about, and I honestly cannot express into words how much I love it.

Percy Jackson: I really liked this series, but especially Annabeth, because she defies all girl stereotypes and turns out to be this awesome warrior girl with a knife that can kill monsters. I think it's really cool how Rick Riordan incorporates greek mythology and makes the gods and myths into a hilarious reality.

Fablehaven: Ok, a few years ago I was COMPLETELY OBSESSED with Fablehaven and I read the series 3 times in a row. I really loved Seth (not in the weird way!) and thought he was really funny and awesome, which he still is! Kendra was ok, but she seemed like such a stereotypical girl and somewhat boring, and yet still somehow seemed to steal all of Seth's glory and do all (well, most) of the important stuff that Seth could have done, but just cooler.

submitted by The Riddler
(May 13, 2016 - 7:37 pm)

Narnia: The Chronicles of Narnia is a beautiful and meaningful story that is actually quite well-written. I personally have no problem with losing Susan. She represents all those who believe as children and then get caught up with the fashions and requirements of the times and are intent on 'Growing Up". She was kind of headed that direction from the beginning-- and when you find out that she's gone and is referring to Narnia as "those funny games we used to play when we were children", it's a bit of a shock, and you miss her, but you understand that she is the one who would lose Narnia in the end-- and also she reminds you of so many real people and you feel sort of resigned. I do not find Narnia to be at all racist (what is racist about 'the Horse and his Boy? Is it the fact that the Calormenes are dark-skinned? What's wrong with that?).

I do hold the opinion that Lewis was much more concerned with his characters than with the world they live in-- which is fine, it's just the kind of story he was writing. What I mean is that, though I saw the characters very well, I never really saw Narnia-- it always seemed like just a map that the characters were moving about on. I never actually saw the hills and mountains, or the islands, or the fountains or the flowers. But again, the story being told does not need all these things-- it is not that sort of book. The flat, map-like appearance of Narnia creates a surface for the imagination to play on-- besides, Lewis was creating a world that would be described as an 'imaginary world'--not that Narnia is imaginary within the story itself-- he's not creating a real epic world with a history for a saga, like Tolkien. 

Harry Potter: I quite like this story. I can't tell whether I prefer the first or the last books in the series-- they are very different. I like the first three books because there is a far more 'magical' feel about them then books 4-7. I mean, I can't imagine the early Harry, Ron and Hermione running about in blue jeans. The first books have a sort of shivery charm which the later ones do not. Books 4-7 get awfully 'teenage' all of a sudden-- still magical, but suddenly a smidge too 'normal'-- again, blue jeans. But again, 1-3 don't make quite as much sense as the later ones-- some of the events and circumstances aren't very logical. And it's fun to watch the characters grow up-- watching Neville becoming more and more heroic (the book-Neville, who is heroic without losing his nature, not the movie-one-- the movie version somehow ceases to be Neville), watching Ron and Hermione fall in love (no, Hermione and Harry would NEVER have worked) and just seeing Harry getting older. 

I appreciate and enjoy the story. It is deep in places, and clever and engaging. The characters really grab you. But I get what people are saying when they complain about the writing-- it's good, but it's not GREAT. The plot, especially in the later books, is good, but it does wander a little. The foundation behind the story is sound-- but it can be bumpy in spots. Overall, a good, enjoyable story. 

 Percy Jackson: I happen to love mythology, so I like the clever modernization of the original, ancient stories. A fun series-, and containing a consistent wit and humor that covers the whole series pretty smoothly--without worn spots or holes in the road. But it is still just another one of these modern, Young Adult stories-- in perhaps fifty years or so, it will be one of those series that caught a craze but never made it to the Classics-- it will not last. It won't last as long as Harry Potter, even, let alone Middle-Earth. 

Lord of the Rings: I'll have to do this one next week :( Goodnight! :)

 

submitted by Esthelle (Es-thel-ay, age Anonymous, Rivendell (I wish) ;)
(May 14, 2016 - 10:57 pm)

Some day, Susan will find her way back to Narnia. And maybe, someday I will too. 

submitted by Icy, age 11, The Forest
(May 15, 2016 - 7:09 pm)

Re: Racism  

Ah, whoops! Didn't mean to jump in, accuse Narnia of racism with no basis, and then jump back out without supporting my claims. 

To be clear: I don't think it's enormously racist for its day, I just think that the dynamics that come into play with Lewis's creation of this Ambiguously Middle Eastern Culture and the way it plays into the story do come across as racist to the modern eye. And no, it's not because the Calormenes are darkskinned - it's because they are created as this Deceitful, Impure, Materialistic culture exclusively as a juxtaposition to the Narnians, who are of course the pure and holy saviors ("good and noble people", I think Shasta describes them at one point) of Arthurian myth. Fantasy authors always struggle with portrayal of other cultures - if Narnia is Britain/Medieval Western Europe, and is thus granted sympathy, then Calormen/Ambiguously Middle Eastern Place is...

Well, let's sort of backtrack a little bit.

I think two of the greatest reasons I think The Horse and his Boy is racist tie back to the overall history of stories like it. The first reason is that Narnia, all throughout it, carries a definite undercurrent of British patriotism. All the stuff about good and simple food, earthy and honest clothing, good and noble people, the very best kinds of grownups, etc, etc, it all ties into this definite picture of "Britain (and, therefore, due to the time period, medieval Europe) = Unequivocally Good." And what was Britain's best-known (although at the time decolonization would have already been underway/have happpened? I'm not sure.) legacy at the time? Imperialism! Much of it motivated by racism (hello, Rudyard Kipling! hello, 20th century pseudoscience!) And we see the legacy of British imperialism present in the Narnia chronicles, at least in The Magician's Nephew. 

And then it comes into collision with a second problem, which is that White Guys Writing Fantasy In The 20th Century (or now, or ever) Are Not Great At Creating Fantasy Versions Of Non-Western Cultures. This holds true for basically anyone I can think of - including Terry Pratchett, who is my favorite author in the world

But then you've got this collision of the Vaguely Middle Eastern Fantasy World - once more, with its rich inhabitants portrayed with immoral opulence, lording over lowly and oppressed lower classes, and with the main plot of the book (Susan's flight from Scary Foreign Prince) catering to a pervasive and harmful stereotype, and with the sympathetic characters that come from this world and this culture stripped of a lot of agency and sympathy (hi, Aravis!).....in collision with this apparent Innate Knowledge everyone has that Narnia (aka Britain!) is the paragon of all that is good in this world.....yeah, I'm calling that racism. 

And I didn't write out this little manifesto to convince you to dislike the book, or even to condemn its author - racism was and still is ingrained in society, and it's hard - perhaps almost impossible - to find works of fiction that are not influenced in some way by the power structures we exist in.  But you asked a question, and I hope I didn't bore you or offend you! Critical analysis of literature is interesting to me, but I really hope I didn't make you feel bad about a series that's important to you, because I'm not saying this as some kind of condemnation of Lewis or Narnia, just as a critical viewpoint on the series. Which the thread was all about, y'know? 

 

Re: Susan 

I personally think Lewis deprives Susan of a lot of sympathy. I agree with you, actually, that he doesn't really focus on his world at all and it leads to some discrepancies (timeline errors! questions like how does Narnia get all that cozy food during the Eternal Winter! Tolkien's famous frustration with the weird combination of mythological and folkloric creatures within Narnia!). But I wouldn't say he focuses on his characters too much either - I'd say he's primarily always thinking of the story he wants to tell, and is moving the characters into the roles he wants them to play in his Christian allegory. (Or....not an allegory? he got picky about the word 'allegory', I believe, but I'm too lazy to look it up.) 

Because once we get past the basic character traits of Our Heroes, they can be boiled down to simple characteristics. Peter is the King Arthur figure; Edmund, considering the effects of the first/second book, is the Redeemed Sinner, Lucy is the Purity Archetype, and that leaves Susan, by process of elimination to be The Sinner.

Because I don't really think he offers Susan (or really any of the other characters) a lot of sympathy! It's difficult for us to imagine because we're kids, but just imagine: your parents and loved ones could die at any moment because an enormous war that will change the way people look at life, combat, everything is underway. You are sent out to the countryside to live indefinitely with a man you hardly know, and suddenly you are pulled out of your world into another war, but this one you will fight in directly; in this one, a talking lion told you that you have to lead an army even though you're maybe thirteen years old; you have to stand and wait as your brother's dying because it's your duty to heal others, to be a battlefield nurse at the age of eight; you have to bear the brunt of an enormous sacrifice made on your behalf because of choices you made under the influence of magical manipulation from the only friendly face in a frozen wasteland; and then you must clear the dust, pick up the pieces, and rule a country before you're old enough to be a high school freshman. Because a talking lion tells you you can do it. 

But you get accustomed. You grow up; you rule the country wisely (or at least - Lewis tells us you do); you make new friends, you make lasting relationships, you find people that mean the world to you: friends, lovers, mentors, parental surrogates. You love your country; you love the person you've become. 

And then, one day, without your consent, without a chance to say goodbye, you are whisked back. Think of the transition of a twenty-to-thirty-something year-old body to a twelve-year-old one; think of the mental transitions; think of going from authority over a whole country to inability to have even the slightest weight in the direction your life goes; the transtiion from leading armies to hearing about them in newspapers; and all this while you are at most thirteen years old

And then you're whisked back.  And everyone you loved here is dead, and the influence you held here is gone, but you save the day, because a talking lion tells you to. Lucy's faith is stronger than yours, but your love was strong; and you don't know how many times you can take this, whisked back and forth, not knowing which place to believe in, scared to get attached because what if you just get ripped out of this world again?

So maybe when the talking lion tells you you're never coming back, when you don't feel shock like before, only the dull throb of renewed grief somewhere within you - maybe you decide it's better to forget. 

Maybe you throw yourself into 'lipstick and nylons' back home because you're desperate for the power you once had, and in the world you live in, lipsticks and nylons can be the only choice to live; maybe you laugh at "games you played when you were children" because it's better than imagining the long-dead faces of people you loved, people you saw every day, because you can't help wondering what would have happened to them, what they thought when you went out on a hunt and never came back, because you always regret it, because you said that maybe they should turn back but they went on into the woods and past the lamp-post and suddenly you were a child again. 

Maybe you're eager to grow up because you are grown up - a grown-up in the body of a child. 

That goes beyond unsympathetic - in many ways, that's horrific

So you are locked out of Narnia, but you did not leave it; in many ways, it left you; it threw you out and left you with nothing, and then punished you for making something out of it. 

~~~

I certainly wasn't intended to write an impassioned defense of Susan Pevensie that crossed into semi-fanfic form at one point tonight, but I can't say anyone who knows me would be surprized. Good night to all! 

Side note: I ended up rereading Fablehaven, and while I remember feeling a similar way about Kendra as a kid, she doesn't bother me anymore. It's refreshing to know a character of such unequivocal goodness; I think she and Seth balance each other out in a very well-crafted dynamic. I have more Fablehaven opinions if anyone wants them - what are you guys's favorite characters? Favorite books? Is Patton Burgess not The Coolest? As for the entire Burgess family, actually? Thoughts on handling the existence of magical creatures in the modern world? Who else is really attached to Vanessa Santoro? Questions that need to be answered, if anybody managed to get to the end of the Narnia rants. 

submitted by Katia
(May 18, 2016 - 8:06 pm)

That was so beautiful, so well written, and helped me (and probably all of the people who read it) to understand the story more. 

One of the reasons that I'm attached to Susan is seperate from the book, and has roots in the movies ocasionally. Hogwarts. Houses. Embarassing? Yes. But we see the charecteristics from the four founders making their way into the children, which has helped me understand the books more.

Peter? Godric Gryffindor. He's brave, got lots of chivalry, and, lets face it, is the best of the Pevensie children (well...maybe Lucy's better. Her innocence and childlikeness make her extremely fair and likable). Susan? Rowena Ravenclaw. She's wise and pretty, yet she has the most tragic history of all the founders. Swap that around and make it the most tragic future, which also can be applied to Rowena. Edmund? Salazar Slytherin, mainly because he starts out that way. I'm going to have to admit there's not good reasoning behind this one. Lucy would be Helga Hufflepuff, because she's kind. Simply kind, and pure. But I think kind is a powerful word that can be applied....

But back to Susan. I compared Susan to Rowena Ravenclaw, because of her wiseness. So maybe, when stuck into the modern world, she thought that shutting herself out was the wisest thing to do?

But back to Rowena Ravenclaw for a few minuteses (Hobbit quote!). Laying on her deathbed, she found that the Baron had stabbed her daughter. This was her future, her thing that she had to die thinking of. Her future. So then we look at Susan, and see her future. A future that's dark as Rowena Ravenclaw's, living a life shut off from her daughter. In this case, it's living a life shut off from her siblings and the world that she once loved, because of one mistake.

So, now that we've compared it to The Four Hogwarts Founders, where does Christianity fit in?

We see it written all over the story; Jesus dies for our sins, Aslan dies for Edmund, both in the most horrible and embarassing way-in the death of a theif on the cross/stone table. It's a pure message, and sometimes it doesn't have to be complex to be beautiful and pure. It's what Jesus (and Aslan) is telling us: No matter what happens to you, in the end, evil beats good.

I don't want to dive into religious matters, since, although I'm a Christian, I don't think that I'm the one who should be preaching. I think I have ears to listen, and a mouth to sing Hymns, not to preach or anything. I'm young, and I might say the wrong things....

So yeah. That's my opinion on Susan. And I still am sorry for her, too. I don't want this to ever break into a religious fight or anything, so if you have any objections on how it's handled religiously, don't go overboard. I think the Christian message is so beautiful.....

Erm, anyways, yeah. This is turning into a very deep anylasis and I LOVE IT I LOVE IT I LOVE IT!!!! Such as when you look at sertain books, let me think of one real quick, such as Harry Potter! (Yes, I know, Harry Potter is like my rolemodel book. It's not perfect, but some of the writing in there is beautiful.) There's a deep emotional meaning behind ALL of Voldemort's Horcruxes! And Fablehaven! When you really think of what Braken did, turning his horn into the font of immortality....he put love for his father into that as well. And you see it in so many good books!

But I'm getting offtrack. It's seriously amazing to look at the meaning behind a book, and it's pleasing, almost getting to have another book in the series.

Thank you for listening to this rant/speech/mini-book on reading Narnia. 

submitted by Icy, age 11, The Forest
(May 19, 2016 - 10:23 am)

I completely agree with Susan. It makes me think soooo much of Merenwe.

submitted by Cho Chang
(May 20, 2016 - 1:01 pm)

Narnia: 

l read it when l was fairly young, nine years old, l think, and l loved it. The story is very well written, but now....l don't really love it anymore, it's a children's series, and maybe a bit flat at times, so as a children's series l will judge it. At the time l was reading it, l didn't really see how much Christianity is implied there, l don't really do now.

Overall, it's good, but a bit flat.

Harry Potter:

Eh. 

l didn't like it.

l'm not aruging that the writing is bad, or the plot is boring, l'm aruging that it isn't the kind of book that calls to me. That being said, l read them with the bias of generally disliking fantasy at the time. l didn't like the main character, his personality is very flat and predictable, he was not that relatable. l didn't like the whole wizarding school thing, l hated how all of the villians were flat, having no character. l hated how Harry was the "Choosen One" and oh so better then everyone else. 

Overall, the worldbuilding and plot are pretty good, but the characters.....Most of them are simply horribly flat. 

Percy Jackson:

l only read the first book, but l did like that one, the plot was nothing amazing, but the set up was interesting, but not really original.

LOtR:

It is long.

l feel like l lost the plot amid all of the flowery words and whatnot. l love the worldbuilding, it's very well done, but l found it hard to get into.

Overall: The length threw me off quite a bit, but it is a very good series and well thought out.

Fablehaven:

The first two books are pretty good, but after that l feel like it tends to repete itself. l do not have many objections to the series, but the one l do is about Kendra.

Like with Harry Potter, l hate how she is more powerful then everyone else, and better, she's a flat character beyond her power.

l enjoyed reading it, but Kendra annoys me out of my mind.  

 

submitted by Shadow Dragon
(May 19, 2016 - 12:42 pm)

Well...thing is, Harry would have to be the Chosen One and take all the glory and be master of death and not let anyone else take the spotlight because, otherwise, the books would be a bit flat.

~Eli <3 

submitted by Eliyana Fur, age 105, Unknown
(May 19, 2016 - 3:04 pm)

About Narnia being a
"children's book"...

C. S. Lewis said, in his dedication
of The Lion, the Witch, and
the Wardrobe
 to his granddaughter Lucy: "Someday, you will be old
enough to start reading fairy tales again."  

 

I'm actually really surprised that
so many people didn't really like Narnia. To each his own, I guess. But I love Narnia.  I love
it because it shows the Creation and the End, and the whole world, in a
completely different way that we tend to think of it. The Bible says the end of
the world will come with the Antichrist, who will pretend to be the real Christ
and lure everyone away from the truth (This is simply what I believe as a Christian; I’m
not trying to offend anybody). But in The
Last Battle
, the Antichrist is only a donkey dressed up in a lion skin.
The donkey himself is not trying to defy Aslan (God); it was the Ape
who made him do it. The donkey (Puzzle) is eventually redeemed by Aslan,
something I love - that even the "Antichrist" himself can be
redeemed. 

And about them constantly leaving
Narnia all the time: Aslan says at the end of The
Voyage of the Dawn Treader
 that the reason they were brought to Narnia
in the first place was to know him better in their own world. They were never
meant to spend their whole life in Narnia. They were meant to get a glimpse of
what it was like and bring a little back in their own world. Take Eustace, for
example. He was a completely annoying and obnoxious person, but after he was
changed into a dragon, he changed for the better and became less selfish and
more considerate.

Aslan says that he had a different
name in their world, and they needed to know him by it. Narnia is like a small
glimpse of Heaven, or a reflection of it, I guess. In The Last Battle, when they're all
in Heaven, they said it was exactly like their own Narnia, just more REAL.
They said that their Narnia from before was just a "reflection" of the
Narnia they were in now, and everything about it just meant MORE. C. S. Lewis
brings attention to that. When I think of Heaven, I think of clouds and cupids
and harps. But I know it's not like that truthfully, it's much more than anyone
could ever imagine. Again, I'm not trying to offend or anyone who's not a
Christian, it's just what I believe that I'm sharing with the group.

About the racism thing: I don’t
believe it’s racist. I do not believe that was C. S. Lewis’s intent, either.
People are different. That’s a fact. Just because the Calormenes have a darker
shade of skin and the slave trade was especially popular in Calormene doesn’t
mean it’s racist. There are several Calormenes in Narnia who aren’t slave
traders (like that young Calormene in The Last Battle who thought Tash
was the one true God. But Aslan tells him that whenever he had done a good deed
in the name of Tash, he had really done it in His name. And whenever he had
done a bad deed in the name of Aslan, he had really done it in Tash’s name).

And about Susan leaving, I agree
with Katia. Susan felt insecure about all this coming and going and because she was smart (like
Rowena Ravenclaw), she decided to protect herself from further harm by shutting
it all out. I believe that one day, Susan will come back to Narnia. I think
maybe deep down, she knows that it’s all real, and yearns to go back to it.

Narnia is just so timeless for me.
When I look in my family’s huge volume of all the Narnian stories held together with masking tape, I can still
see where, when I was learning to read, my mom wrote the dates, or crossed out
words and made them have subject-verb agreement. It’s a story not just about Narnia,
but about our world as well.

So... yeah! That is why I love Narnia!

submitted by Pickle, age 15, GA
(June 5, 2016 - 11:33 am)

I think it makes sense that Seth's powers weren't fully mature because he himself wasn't fully mature. The end of Fablehaven almost happened multiple times because of him. As time went on, he became more mature, but not as obedient and mature as Kendra in the end.

And why oh why didn't they realize that if they all took turns standing on each others' shoulders, they could use the Translocator to appear on each others' shoulders--something that would have come in handy a lot of times.

submitted by Micearenice
(May 19, 2016 - 7:26 pm)

Narnia: I've only read the first three books (currently in the process of reading them) but the first three were AMAZING. I LOVE these books. The plot itself is really creative. I don't have many other opinions, since I haven't finished the series. 

HP: Like Katia said, HP has basically defined me as a person. I have loved it ever since I was little bitty and whenever I read something, I judge it as "Was this as good as HP?" or "Was this not as good as HP?" And, while some books have come close, nothing is really as good as HP. JK is a FANTASTIC writer and every single book in this series was FANTASTIC. I have read so many complaints that in the last few books, Harry was whiny and angst-y. Well, he was, but only in the movies. Book!Harry was not whiny and complainy. He stayed strong, even though his life was hard and I just love him for that. All the characters were so realistic, and none of them were perfect. i could relate to all of them, and am still attached to every single one of them. 

PJ: I. Love. This. Series. I totally agree with what Mei-xue said, people like this series but for the wrong reasons. The series is funny, and witty, but at the same time, there's deep and complex emotions going on (for example: Luke when he killed himself to save the world, Percy trying to remember his memories in tSoN, the Leo and Calypso scenes, and of course, the whole thing with Nico). All the characters were realistic, and they all had their flaws, and were relatable. And, okay, some people say Jason is 'too perfect' and 'doesn't have much of a personality', but YOU ARE WRONG. I LOVE Jason and he is wonderful and how could you not like him?????

LOTR: I only read The Hobbit, but I'm going to read them all at some point. The Hobbit was really good, the characters were deep, and the world complex, but the book was somewhat hard to follow. Tolkien was good at describing the world in vivid detail, and giving you a good mental picture of what Middle Earth looks like, though.

Fablehaven: Never read it.  

submitted by Leafmist, age 11 moons, Fowl Manor
(May 20, 2016 - 7:21 pm)

Lord of the Rings: I saw that someone said that Tolkien got too caught up with his world and forgot he was telling a story. I also saw someone say that the characters don't change and grow enough. But...

The Lord of the Rings is not a typical Young Adult book. The fact that Tolkien is obviously in love with his world is only part of what makes that world so beautiful, deep and real. I have seen Middle-Earth, from the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire to the cruel harshness of Mordor. I have seen the glory of the Mallorn trees of Lothlorien in Autumn, and heard the longing cry of the gulls by the Sundering Sea, and smelt the fresh balm of Athelas, and felt the eerie horror of Shelob's Lair. Because Tolkien saw and heard and smelt and felt all these things.

I know the joy and the sorrow of the Elves of the Hither Shore, and the gnawing, self-pitying, entrapping, despicable, horrible despair of Gollum, and the sudden burst of highest bliss when Gandalf laughs in Ithilien, and the terrible, irresistable desire imparted to all by the Ring, and the great, dark-defying gladness of Faramir upon the walls of Gondor, and the overpowering emptiness of Frodo as the Ring takes all that is in him and eats it away, leaving him powerless and broken.  Because Tolkien understood and felt all of these things. 

Many characters of the Lord of the Rings do not change. Because there is no need or want for them to do so. They are not people in a teenage adventure book, in which all the young characters are undergoing much confusion in every aspect of their life. In which the whole point of the book is for these people to become different. In such a story, the characters do so. They change.

But the people of Middle-Earth endure.

They endure, whole and untainted, through the horror and terror of evil, through the rending of loss, through suffering and weeping and toil of every kind. But they endure. The world laughs. All that is good is not gone.

Frodo does change. He changes so much that he can never be whole again in Middle Earth. That life and innocence and joy that made him the only one able to bear the Ring has been devoured by that Ring.  He saved the world, but not for him. He makes a change that is unlike many others one reads of. His change is not one of self-discovery. His change is one of ultimate sacrifice, the loss of self and all that he loves. All that he sacrificed for in the first place. Can anyone call that 'not changing'?

In 'the Hobbit' the title character, Bilbo Baggins, also changes. Because that was the point of his Adventure. But even then, he is not completely different. He never loses his Baggins-ish outlook. That outlook only comes to be informed and enlargened by his Took side.  Bilbo is not reversed-- he is fulfilled.

I also saw someone say that Gandalf is rather boring. That he is always calm and collected and that everyone trusts him.

For one thing-- anyone who's read the story can tell that Gandalf is anything but boring. Before he becomes Gandalf the White, he is vain and irritable, with a great sense of humor. Later, that sense of humor is made even more manifest, and he is no longer so irritable-- he is very weary. The fact that everyone trusts him and looks to him for advise is because that's why he's there. He is a Maiar who was present at the shaping of Arda, and he was sent as one of the Istari to wage war against Sauron. He is fulfilling his task. (And he seems to be the only one of the Istari to do so-- Sauruman falls, along with Alatar and Polondo, and Radagast, though he does not openly rebel, neglects his task.) Here are a few verses by Frodo, describing Gandalf. 

A deadly sword, a healing hand, 

A back that bent beneath its load;

A trumpet-voice, a burning brand,

A weary pilgrim on the road.

 

A lord of wisdom throned he sat, 

Swift in anger, quick to laugh; 

An old man in a battered hat

Who leaned upon a thorny staff. 

That describes many aspects of Gandalf's character-- and I don't see 'calm' listed among them.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with this. But I will defend my favorite story to the bitter end.

Namarie! :) 

 

submitted by Esthelle (Es-thel-ay, age Anonymous, Rivendell (I wish) ;)
(May 21, 2016 - 4:11 pm)

Intresting!

We should get together (everyone who's posted on here) and do a recap of what we've talked about. 

submitted by Icy, age 11, The Forest
(May 24, 2016 - 3:55 pm)

I agree! :D

submitted by Esthelle (Es-thel-ay, age Anonymous, Rivendell (I wish) ;)
(June 4, 2016 - 9:04 am)

Wow...this is some really detailed insight and opinions!

submitted by Owlgirl
(June 4, 2016 - 4:06 pm)